Breaking the 10X rule.....

[guysmilie]

I know that when you try to run a hand in SNGPT where you are moving in for more than 10x the BB you get a message warning you that you "may want to consider strategic options other than moving in here.".

If you choose to continue anyway you find that most of the hands that are +EV to push for more than 10X the BB are quite strong and you probably would rather get some action than just pick up the blinds.

My question is "WHEN DO YOU PUSH FOR MORE THAN 10X THE BIG BLIND?" I am thinking that perhaps when your just above 10x the bb and your hand has +EV in the range of +0.4-0.7 Most hands that show +EV of over 1% are so strong that you might prefer to get called.

Also "WOULD YOU EVER PUSH FOR 20X THE BIG BLIND, OR MORE? AND IF SO WHY?"

Thanks to all who contribute.

[morphball]

I am prone to breaking the 10xBB rule when I have a hand that I hate folding but hate playing after the flop even more (usually 99-JJ, & AK)

This is position dependant/table dependent, in EP on a crazy table, I might shove QQ+ and certainly fold 99-TT

[wiggs73]

Generally, if I have like 12 BB or something and a hand that I don't necessarily want to encourage action with, but at the same time is +EV to push... a standard raise is going to do 1 of 2 things there... encourage action (ie someone to push over me, which sucks) or it's going to leave me in an awkward spot post-flop in the event that I get called pre.

I'd never open push for 20x the BB but of course there are times it makes sense to push for that amount over a raiser or some limpers or something.

[silkyslim]

i do it when:
vilain has less than 10BBs, or
calls normal raises too much but folds to pushes (when i want a fold)
dont like playing postflop with the hand

[The Yugoslavian]

I DO IT SOMETIMES WHEN I HAVE BETWEEN 10-13 BBs AND IF A STANDARD RAISE GETS CALLED I WILL BE IN A DIFFICULT SPOT POSTFLOP.

I WOULD ONLY PUSH FOR OVER 20XBB AS A MISCLICK.

Yugoslav

[Chanaz8]

Starting in Level 3, Usually with JJ or AK - in places where you may get called, and its a much better option to steal the chips.

[AMT]

rarely over 15bb's will i consider an open push preflop without any limpers or antes. often, between 10-15 bb you are in spots, as people mentioned, where a raise and c-bet will cripple you when it fails and not allow for any margin of error. in these spots, a fold or push is still approriate when the blinds/antes are significant to your stack and/or you will still get called by worse hands and there are weak players that you are pushing into (depending on the situation). following the 10xbb rule blindly is bad, but habitually pushing 20bb's preflop is also bad...youll find the middle situations where a hand like AK will go horribly awry if you raise PF and fail at a c-bet, and in some of these situations, an open push (or possibly a limp, in very specific situations) would be more correct. hope this helps.