The "Ghost" extra chips in the WSOP ME

[stanek]

On the second to last day of the ME I saw a listing on ebay selling 2.2M WSOP chips for $19.95 +45.99 overnight shipping. The winner of the auction was JgAoMlEdS (whoever that is). Maybe that could account for the missing chips, but who knows.

[MicroBob]

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But then, the same man added a stack on the 2nd day of a tournament

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I'm not sure what exactly he means by 'adding a stack'.

He introduced an extra stack of chips to a table somehow? Anyone able to elaborate on what is meant by this?

[benfranklin]

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But then, the same man added a stack on the 2nd day of a tournament

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I'm not sure what exactly he means by 'adding a stack'.

He introduced an extra stack of chips to a table somehow? Anyone able to elaborate on what is meant by this?

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I was not aware of this happening in the ME, but there were some problems in at least one 6-max event. Due to managerial incompetence, they started with more than 6 players at some tables in a 6-max event (on purpose, because of not enough dealers). So Joe Sixpack comes to his assigned Table 100/Seat 1, and there are no chips there at the start of the tournament. So some suit gets him a stack of chips, and they start. But the guy at Table 100/Seat 5 isn't there, and they blind him off. Several hours later, they figure out that the stack at Seat 5 really was suppposed to belong to Joe Sixpack in Seat 1. But now that stack is gone, blinded off and scattered among a dozen or more players, now seated all over the room. Apparently this happened more than once.

[Ortho]

Yes, but even so, by the point we are down to 27 players, these considerations are not relevant. According to QL and Kevmath earlier in this thread, 1.7 of the 2.2M extra chips were added between the time there were 27 players and the time there were 9, making any considerations of chip races or day 1 blindoffs beside the point. Those considerations can only apply to the .5M in chips that got added before Day 6. There is still not even a consensus hypothesis that can explain how the extra 1.7 of 2.2M chips got there beyond the start of day 6, and none of the explanations even begin to address that issue.

[Kevmath]

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But then, the same man added a stack on the 2nd day of a tournament

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I'm not sure what exactly he means by 'adding a stack'.

He introduced an extra stack of chips to a table somehow? Anyone able to elaborate on what is meant by this?

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The Gavin Smith incident.

I think that the floorperson who did this also gave Andy Bloch a penalty because he was destroying cards that were marked during the HORSE event. I know on the Circuit, Gavin Smith was wondering how this particular floor person kept his job.

[laurentia]

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About that I say "then why did 1.7M of the extra 2.2M chips appear between 27 and 9 players left?"





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Considering that there were probably cameras on every table I would say that it must have happened after they were down to 9. Cheat puts down 2.2M more on his sheet, his partner who whappens to be a staff member OKs it and later since he has access to everyone's chips adds it to it.

[oldmcycles]

Since I am a chip collector I would be the only one guilty of taking chips off the tables. LOL

[SumZero]

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Has anyone taken into account the fact that more than one new chip can be added. This can happen if a player loses all his chips in the race off. In this case the player receives one of the higher level chips. This is to prevent a player being eliminated by a race off.

So, if one player's stack is less than the consolidation level (which can happen) then it is quite possible that just under 2 chips worth will be added.
If this happens at a high level it can easily add a big amount of chips.

I haven't checked the actual amount of chips there were so I can't stgate if that was the reason or not - just an idea.

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Yes, both Jerrod Ankenman and I did the math to prove that only a tiny fraction of 2.2M chips could have been added even in a pathological case.

http://tinyurl.com/fkaxm
http://tinyurl.com/fzfro

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That isn't the maximum possible as that isn't the most pathological case. I agree that chip racing is not the cause of 2.2M chips, but chip racing can, in theory, add more than the amount that you calculate. Because at each table at each chip race you could have short stacks who get raced out of the tournament. I believe the procedure here (which I've seen in tournaments before) is that you do the normal chip race (which has the maximum add that you calculated) and then if any short stack is raced out of existance they get 1 of the smallest chips now in play. So if at every table 8 players were short stacks with 1 chip each and the big stacks had 1 chip and won each race you could add another 7 or 8 chips to the table. In the truly theoretical worst case.

[Quicksilvre]

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The paperwork involved for the Harrah's corp is staggering. The single table satellite mgr, received a report with 114 (114 is not a typo) errors from the auditing dept after one night for example.

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This makes the messed-up chip totals a lot less surprising.

[duma]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ultimate-WSOP-co...QQcmdZViewItem

check it out. i am certain that Harrahs will change the chips for next year.