Stars $5 Deepstack, 15 players left

Gomez22 · #1 08-17-2006, 08:58 PM

Let me preface the actual HH with a little history and my take on what's going in this particular situation.....

I've been playing pretty well the last few weeks getting to the final 3 tables in 5 of my last 20 MTTs (for me, this is goot!), and in 4 of those cases, I made the top 15, so, at the time, I feel great about my game.

In this MTT, I got a big stack early and used it well, being in the top-20 in chip count from late in the first level until I busted out on the hand below in 15th place. I had made some good reads and have learned to play position much better than I used to (thanks to sweating Rizen and Shaniac, mostly I would guess without their knowing).

On to the hand, and my personal thoughts...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t2400 (8 handed) internettexasholdem.com

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG (t183433)
UTG+1 (t152998)
MP1 (t75983)
Gomez (t59168)
CO (t50646)
Button (t90322)
SB (t131998)
BB (t99707)

Preflop: Gomez is MP2 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls t2400, 2 folds, Gomez raises to t9600, 4 folds, UTG raises to t17050, Gomez calls t7200.

The UTG player that raises here has been 'playing the big stack' well and made some raises and calls that seemed a biit loose to me at the time. When he re-pops me here, I don't really like it, but I will have position and I personally think his range in somewhat larger than TT-AA, AJ-AK.

Flop: (t35350) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets t43200, Gomez calls t42118 (All-In).

A great flop for me, but a bad situation to be in here. When he pushes, I tanked and thought about what he might have here. I sorta narrowed his range a bit, but it was still what I would consider a 'large amount of hands' that he could have (AA-66, AK-A8, KQ-KJ is pretty close to the range I was thinking of at the time), With his push, I'm getting about 1.9-1 to call, and I figure immediately that if I make the flush, I win. I then start to think about his range here and call with about 2 seconds left in my time bank, thinking that it's a very thin call, but one that I may NOT be a 7-3 dog in (higher PP).

Turn: (t120668) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t120668) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t120668

OK.... this is the first time in a LOOOOONNNNNGGGG time I have called off my stack with a draw (something I really don't believe in too much) but here, with the range I gave him, I think (based on pure mathematics at the time) that this is very close to a negligable decision (calling and folding are BOTH so close that neither is wrong). Given my description of the hand and my reads at the time, does anyone have any comments to make about this play?

Colombo · #2 08-17-2006, 09:11 PM

I think you played this hand very poorly.

Preflop is bad, just limp. You don't have alot of FE, and its a against a UTG limper. I'm not sure what you were trying to accomplish here, build the pot with a disguised hand. I don't know, but I definitely limp here.

Flop is pretty bad as well. You most likely have 9 clean outs, but your 8 or 9s may be good as well, but rarely. So lets say youhave 10 outs here. You aren't getting close to the odds that you need to call this, so I would fold rather quickly. I also think that you are subconsciously modifying his range to better suit your hand.

Imrahil · #3 08-18-2006, 09:15 AM

Stars has a $5 deepstack?

2Fast · #4 08-18-2006, 10:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Stars has a $5 deepstack?

[/ QUOTE ]

I had same thought....when is it? I play $10 deepstack on Sat. - Sunday sometimes but didn't know they have a $5.

As for the hand, I don't like the call to the re-pop. You're calling down a quarter of your stack with 98s to an UTG guy who might have limped with a monster. After the limper I usually would fold 98s I think unless more deepstacked and could just let it go real easy if i had to.
Way you played it I think you have to call the flop though -you're pot odds are about even with your odds to the flush a - I hate playing draws like this too...seems like I never hit while everyone else does!

Gomez22 · #5 08-18-2006, 01:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you played this hand very poorly.

Preflop is bad, just limp. You don't have alot of FE, and its a against a UTG limper. I'm not sure what you were trying to accomplish here, build the pot with a disguised hand. I don't know, but I definitely limp here.

Flop is pretty bad as well. You most likely have 9 clean outs, but your 8 or 9s may be good as well, but rarely. So lets say youhave 10 outs here. You aren't getting close to the odds that you need to call this, so I would fold rather quickly. I also think that you are subconsciously modifying his range to better suit your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, let me state that I appreciate you taking the time to reply, but I think you're missing alot of what this post is about (at least to me).....

You stated that t you thought I played the hand poorly, but in no way did I ask for an overall synopsis about the hand. In this situation, I HAD been getting a TON of respect at the table, and had not had any of my previous 5-7 PF raises contested. After that, a part of me thought that this guy may be playing back at me. The table dynamics were very strange here, and given what I thought the rest of the table thought about me, I thought (and still think) that I can outplay this particular opponent post-flop.

My whole point to the post was the call on the flop.... not pre-flop, not anything else that happens after the cards come out.... merely my flop play. If I had to do it again, I may well do the exact same thing.

If you could look at this hand from a deep stack's point of view (in this case, my opponent), you have limped UTG, and possibly the tightest player at the table has raised (and has done so numerous times in the past 3 orbits without being contested)..... here, there are ALOT of hands that a stack with ~90 times the BB can min-re-raise with, and most of the time, IMO, I can see this play being used for informational purposes. As a matter of fact, I really like this type of play in a HU situation with a huge stack and a hand like AK, AQ, AJs, KQs when you're OOP against a small stack..... it's a great way to find out rather cheaply if you're ahead or not, you're not committing yourself to a push, and you can effectively 'take control' of the hand. It's a play I have made maybe 2-3 times in the past few months. I'm not saying that a $5 MTTer will have this play in their arsenal, but I DO like it and am familiar with it.

I've also seen a LRR with small PPs.... all the way down to 5's, but only a couple times, so I'm really not putting my opp. on only AA-QQ here.

Also, you state in your reply that I have an estimated 10 outs. Getting 1.85-1 (it's close), a 10-outer is basically a 1.6-1 with 2 cards to come, so in actuality, I'm getting a bit of an edge here, although it's not much, I admit.

Anything else to add?

Gomez22 · #6 08-18-2006, 01:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Stars has a $5 deepstack?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah... the one today started at 1:00 EST. The one I mentioned in my original HH was on Wednesday, although I could have sworn that it started at 11:30 am (although I was under the influence of mind-altering substances, so I could be wrong).

Beachman42 · #7 08-18-2006, 02:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I thought (and still think) that I can outplay this particular opponent post-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

In My Very Humble Opinion, you cannot "outplay" anyone post flop here. You have no wiggle room. I believe you prolly did a good job of assessing the situation from your posts, but you are not deep enough to play anything but push or fold on the flop given the pot size. In this case, your positional advantage is negated by the big stack's first to act position on the flop.

jdog1999 · #8 08-18-2006, 02:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I thought (and still think) that I can outplay this particular opponent post-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

In My Very Humble Opinion, you cannot "outplay" anyone post flop here. You have no wiggle room. I believe you prolly did a good job of assessing the situation from your posts, but you are not deep enough to play anything but push or fold on the flop given the pot size. In this case, your positional advantage is negated by the big stack's first to act position on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

From the way you presented things I think you assessed things correctly. But you are putting your tournament life on the line on a coin flip. If your read is right I think the only way you can call this all in is if you have the Ace. You have plenty of chips live to fight another day.

I think you also mentioned that he has played with small pocket pairs before. I could totally see a full house or four of a kind here. So you may be drawing dead already.

lemonPeel · #9 08-18-2006, 03:29 PM

So what happens if BB wakes up with a hand and decides to either push or make it something like 30k, or if UTG decides instead of mini reraising pushes all in?

You have a speculative hand in mid position that's value is largely derived from what comes on the flop. It's a hand that wants MANY callers preflop, yet you decide to thin the field with it with about 1/6 of your stack? Then you decide to call off 43k with two overs and a flush draw when very likely your overs are no good?

InternetJunky · #10 08-18-2006, 03:35 PM

Maybe he's limped non-monster hands UTG before, but when he re-raises you pre-flop the warning bells should be going off. What is he limp/raising you with? I think this has to narrow his range down to AA-QQ.

I wish there was a way to search poker office hand histories for opponents limp-raising UTG, as I'm willing to bet that 99% of the time they held a monster.