My queens are killing me: find my mistakes, please! (long) - Page 2

darom03 · #11 08-18-2006, 01:27 PM

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Your PF raises are too small. 4XBB + 1X per limper plz k thx.

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I see nothing wrong w my preflop raises. 3,5x BB is fine IMHO.

w. 1 limper, I make it 4xBB

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Seriously, if you don't want advice, don't ask for it. You just turned your request for input into a bad beat whine.

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You clearly misunderstand me then.

The advice given is "raise more preflop [insert formula]" but the reasoning behind the statement lacks. I won't take these thing for gospel without some more insight to why this is the exact right amount. I follow a raise size, that I see the pro's at full tilt (John Juanda, Erik Lindgreen et al) use when they play. And no, I have no clue as to why they use that raise size. I just do what they do, like a good fanboy. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

DaveTheClueless · #12 08-18-2006, 01:28 PM

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plz k thx.

[/ QUOTE ] I assume people do this because they know it makes other people want to smack them? Just curious...

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No, it IDs you as a 733t D3wd

gimmetheloot · #13 08-18-2006, 01:28 PM

pf raise size is fine. mine is eprsonally 4+.5BB per limper. *shrug*

Hince · #14 08-18-2006, 01:31 PM

Hand 1) Fold flop.
Hand 2) Fold turn.
Hand 3) Fold flop.
Hand 4) Standard.

jb9 · #15 08-18-2006, 01:32 PM

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Turn: ($23.25) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $17, Hero calls $17.

Turn: ($27.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $35, Hero calls $35.

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You really don't want to be check/calling large bets with 1 pair too often (unless you know your opponent is a bluffer).

If your hand is good enough to call bets this large, you should be betting rather than checking.

If you are checking because you are worried you are beat, you need to fold when your opponent's bet screams that you are beat.

darom03 · #16 08-18-2006, 01:39 PM

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Turn: ($23.25) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $17, Hero calls $17.

Turn: ($27.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $35, Hero calls $35.

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You really don't want to be check/calling large bets with 1 pair too often (unless you know your opponent is a bluffer).

If your hand is good enough to call bets this large, you should be betting rather than checking.

If you are checking because you are worried you are beat, you need to fold when your opponent's bet screams that you are beat.

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Yes you are 100% right. My thought at the time went something like this:

"Uhh the overbet!!! I knew he was bluffing... now I just float his ass till the river, and then hammer him with my 733T position, HA!... Nope lets check an induce a bluff. Ha-ha! He bets again!!! that nooob, what an easy call Muahahahaaa"

Maybe I should work on my thoughtprocess, I don't know. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Tuee · #17 08-18-2006, 01:41 PM

In order for hand #1 to be a +EV hand the way you played it, your opponents would have to be raising with crap on the flop--and following up with a barrel on the turn--a huge percentage of the time. Making this assumption requires a very solid read on your opponent, which from the sounds of your post you did not have. The hand you were subconsciously putting your opponent on when you called that turn bet (as implied by your actions) is that your villain had a hand no better than a nut-flush draw with middle-pair (which is the best hand you still beat if neither of you improve). While there may be guys out there who would fire a barrel on the turn with this hand (thus giving themselves proper odds to call you if you pushed over them), most guys with this hand are just looking for a cheap/free card and won't be making this turn bet. Hands worse than this are even less likely to play this line. So in short, you should generally be giving this line credit for a K-- especially since a K means your precious queens are drawing dead.

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Actually looking at them hands again, makes me feel like such a donkey. Surely I am too aggressive, but I often see players raise me with crap, and that make me question every raise they make... and it obviously costs me money.

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Keep in mind that you actually want to face opponents who raise you with crap all the time. Instead of worrying about all the times they're bluffing you, pick your spots where you can really hammer them. If they're truly raising the flop and then bluffing the turn with a near pot-sized bet regularly, it shouldn't be too hard to get your good hands paid off.

King Spew · #18 08-18-2006, 01:43 PM

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I follow a raise size, that I see the pro's at full tilt (John Juanda, Erik Lindgreen et al) use when they play.

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They are playing a different game than you. errrr... higher level stakes at least.

When 2+2ers give the "standard" formula, it is based, in part by , the game WE play. (4x + 1per)cuts down but might not get rid of everyone at our stakes.

At "the pros" stakes, that formula will probably have the opps fold around.

The goal of a PFR with a killer hand is to limit action to one or two opps, not win PF. The amount of PFR is determined in part by the table stakes.... as well as table dynamics at the time. As an example, 4X +1per doesn't work at a table of "I'll call anything". There you have to move the bet amount up a bit so you only get a caller or maybe two. Conversely, you may have to move it down a bit at a "nit" table.

darom03 · #19 08-18-2006, 01:45 PM

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In order for hand #1 to be a +EV hand the way you played it, your opponents would have to be raising with crap on the flop--and following up with a barrel on the turn--a huge percentage of the time. Making this assumption requires a very solid read on your opponent, which from the sounds of your post you did not have. The hand you were subconsciously putting your opponent on when you called that turn bet (as implied by your actions) is that your villain had a hand no better than a nut-flush draw with middle-pair (which is the best hand you still beat if neither of you improve). While there may be guys out there who would fire a barrel on the turn with this hand (thus giving themselves proper odds to call you if you pushed over them), most guys with this hand are just looking for a cheap/free card and won't be making this turn bet. Hands worse than this are even less likely to play this line. So in short, you should generally be giving this line credit for a K-- especially since a K means your precious queens are drawing dead.

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Actually looking at them hands again, makes me feel like such a donkey. Surely I am too aggressive, but I often see players raise me with crap, and that make me question every raise they make... and it obviously costs me money.

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Keep in mind that you actually want to face opponents who raise you with crap all the time. Instead of worrying about all the times they're bluffing you, pick your spots where you can really hammer them. If they're truly raising the flop and then bluffing the turn with a near pot-sized bet regularly, it shouldn't be too hard to get your good hands paid off.

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Best reply so far, thank you.

How would you play out hand number one, if you were in the drivers seat - would you raise more preflop, and continuebet the flop/fold to raise?

Tarheel · #20 08-18-2006, 01:47 PM

The problem is not that you lost w/ queens 6 times out of 10. That happens to everybody. The problem is that you are playing them very poorly.

Remember how i said:

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Are you actually thinking about what you're doing while you play?

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Well you confirmed that by saying:

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I follow a raise size, that I see the pro's at full tilt (John Juanda, Erik Lindgreen et al) use when they play.

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Their game is a lot different than ours. You need to be thinking about how to play your hands, against your opponents, in your game, plain and simple. Nobody can help you with that but you. A better idea for next time you post is to post 1 hand, and give your thought process on every street so that people know where you're coming from. Then people might be able/willing to help you more. GL to you.