Two hands, one bad, one impressive

Riddick · #1 08-17-2006, 02:16 AM

No reads, just utterly lost. Decided after the raise that there was no going back.

Party Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
10 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $96
UTG+1: $70.74
UTG+2: $84.50
MP1: $24.50
MP2: $86.16
MP3: $107.53
CO: $395.25
Button: $84.44
SB: $193.75
BB: $200.98

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero calls, 3 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 raises to $6.5, 4 folds, Hero calls, MP2 folds.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($15.5, 2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $16.15, Hero raises to $64.6, MP3 raises all-in $84.88, Hero calls all-in $24.9.
Uncalled bets: $24.9 returned to Hero.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($164.98, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $185.26)

River: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($164.98, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $185.26)

Results:
Final pot: $164.98

And now, the lingering fear of the huge min-raise

Party Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $393.75
UTG+1: $57.44
MP1: $190.25
MP2: $202.18
Hero: $97.50
CO: $68.74
Button: $66.70
SB: $73.30
BB: $83.16

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG raises to $3.5, 2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls, 3 folds, BB calls.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($14.5, 4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 bets $10, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($44.5, 3 players)
UTG bets $25.26, MP2 calls, Hero raises to $50.52, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($196.06, 3 players)
UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero is all-in $33.48, 2 folds.
Uncalled bets: $33.48 returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: $196.06

youdidwhat · #2 08-17-2006, 03:22 AM

Hand 1. Were you tempted to raise PF?
Once you have CR'd him on the flop, your whole stack is in play. Why risk it with the second nuts?

Better to lead out - you then get to find out where you are. If OP flat calls I'd be tempted to check it down, turn and river. A player read often isn't much use unless you know the OP plays the flop particularly tight.
If I were raised by a tight/good player this should be an easy lay down. The only hand you are beating is trips or an (over) ambitious bluff by AA representing the nuts.

Hand 2. 17 outs - possibly 19 - on the flop is a premium draw + a backdoor flush. I would like to raise the pot on the flop. If one of the player's has trips you are, best case scenario a little worse than a coinflip. Any overpair should fold and coupled with dead money should give you a small profit. There is always the possibility that you are duplicating your outs with the others.

However, as it is, you hit a monster redraw on the turn. Facing a bet, I think you should raise all-in here. I can't see any point in the minraise - it's an invitation for people to call, or if they have a big hand, reraise. Tighter players will put you on top set.
With money left on the river, I don't like the last bet. Any overpair should call here for that amount.

guilt_trip · #3 08-17-2006, 10:45 AM

Hand 1:
I'd be tempted to lead out on the flop to define your hand better. If he raises then you can throw and only lose $15. With no line on the opponent I'd play it causiously as AAJx could be a possibility or four face cards. By the way he's re-raising a check raise he is v.strong but you have to call because of the odds

Hand 2:
I'd raise the flop and then on that turn to get it all in.

Cant believe both folded on the river for $30 into $150 though

Runner Runner · #4 08-17-2006, 12:23 PM

I agree with guilt_trip for hand #1.

Hand #2: I like your flop call even with a strong draw like that, because you will have odds to call a turn bet, but if the board pairs you can get away from it. I cannot believe your turn and river play worked. I prefer just calling the turn.

Riddick · #5 08-17-2006, 01:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1. Were you tempted to raise PF?
Once you have CR'd him on the flop, your whole stack is in play. Why risk it with the second nuts?

[/ QUOTE ]

1) Yes I was very tempted to raise preflop but did not this time.

2) I only risked my last $24 with the 2nd nuts, at the time of my C/R I thought I was going to be taking his c-bet down without a challenge.

I think leading out would be the best play from now on with 2nd nuts like these. Unfortunately at this level, overplaying AAxx is way too common.

Riddick · #6 08-17-2006, 01:29 PM

On the turn in hand #2 I viewed my minraise as essentially an all-in, since it made me pot-committed anyways, but with the caveat of making it look like I had a made hand, which ended up paying off. Most of the time I push the turn but Im seeing some serious merit to the fake-made-hand,pot-committed-anyways move on the turn here.

As it turns out, one player said he had the same draw as me with a higher flush, and the other player didnt reveal but was quite pissed when I showed my cards.

CallYNotRaise06 · #7 08-17-2006, 01:56 PM

riddick, on hand 2 with the wrap, do you ever raise that flop and just try to get it AI right there?

Riddick · #8 08-17-2006, 04:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
riddick, on hand 2 with the wrap, do you ever raise that flop and just try to get it AI right there?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I had a King to go with the wrap, making it an all-nut wrap draw then most often I will raise pot on the flop here, especially into a less than full-pot bet with position.

Any club or 8 on the turn was the ideal card and prompted the heavy action. Otherwise I would have still remained very cautious, and wouldnt have been too excited if a King or Ten hit the board.

RoundTower · #9 08-17-2006, 04:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
riddick, on hand 2 with the wrap, do you ever raise that flop and just try to get it AI right there?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I had a King to go with the wrap, making it an all-nut wrap draw then most often I will raise pot on the flop here, especially into a less than full-pot bet with position.

[/ QUOTE ]
I feel this is wrong, you should be more inclined to raise all in early in the hand if you have a lot of draws but many of them are not to the nuts. Because 1) you might get rid of someone who will make the nuts when you have the second nuts and 2) once you hit your hand, it is harder to get the same value from it. I've never heard this second idea explained properly but I'm sure you can justify it mathematically.

RoundTower · #10 08-17-2006, 04:37 PM

It's similar to how, if you have a big draw on the flop, you should be more inclined to get it all in if you are out of position.