does the bill affect poker affiliate income?

[windsorPHD]

am i still allowed to profit from the rakeback i earn from non-usa players? I would probably not actively market my poker affiliate stuff.

[KKsuited]

uh, no. You never were allowed to profit from rakeback. Think about it. You're getting a cut of the illegal money earned by these sites. That's definitely not legal and anyone telling you it is doesn't know what they are talking about.

Now, having said that, I do it and will continue to make affiliate income. But, I understand it's 100% illegal and there's no way any judge in america would see other wise.

[DuderinoAB]

No judge in America has seen it as illegal yet. The fact that the DOJ has given lip service to the illegality claim wouldn't affect affiliates any more than players as they have stated that is illegal as well (even though 23 million Americans "break the law" and not one has ever been charged for this "illegal" activity let alone convicted). I think the question here is does the bill change that and actually make it illegal in the sense that affiliates would be prosecuted.

[KKsuited]

[ QUOTE ]
No judge in America has seen it as illegal yet. The fact that the DOJ has given lip service to the illegality claim wouldn't affect affiliates any more than players as they have stated that is illegal as well (even though 23 million Americans "break the law" and not one has ever been charged for this "illegal" activity let alone convicted). I think the question here is does the bill change that and actually make it illegal in the sense that affiliates would be prosecuted.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a big difference in being a player and being an affiliate. One is operating as essentially an employee with an illegal business.

Neither affiliates or players are technically legal, but neither has been prosecuted.

OP question was will the new bill "make it illegal". It has always been illegal.

[TruePoker CEO]

"I understand it's 100% illegal and there's no way any judge in america would see other wise. '

I think that a federal judge in the Fifth Circuit would see otherwise. The United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit wrote an opinion, which the DOJ likes to ignore, which clearly ruled that the Wire Act does not apply to anything but sports betting.

THAT is precisely why the backers of HR4411 seek to amend the Wire Act , get it ???

Whether they will succeed presents open issues of politics and law.

To answer the OP however, if your players are from the US, you definitely will see an effect on the amount of play, no real question that you will, if the bill becomes law.

[TruePoker CEO]

Contra, In Re Mastercard Litigation opinion of the Fifth Circuit (5th Cir. 2001)(Wire Act limited to sportbetting businesses)

[LinusKS]

The MasterCard case was a case where credit card holders sued their credit card companies, after losing money gambling on the internet. It was a civil case, not a criminal case, and the holding was that MasterCard was not part of a racketeering conspiracy.

The argument that the case stands for the proposition that internet gambling is legal is disingenuous, at best.

In fact, there are several Federal laws that prohibit illegal gambling, including illegal gambling on the internet. Just as importantly, every state in the US either prohibits gambling altogether, or prohibits it when it isn't licensed or authorized by the state. No state in the US licenses any internet gambling site.

Promoting illegal gambling is - as KK said - generally a more serious offense than just being a player.

If you are an affiliate, you should talk to a lawyer.

[LinusKS]

It's also worth noting, that after winning that case, credit card companies stopped doing business with internet gambling sites.

[KKsuited]

The referenced case has little to do with the issue at hand. There are home games, bar leagues, etc being shut down. Like Linus said, gambling is illegal in most states, whether over the internet or not.

I just spoke to Patrick O'brien yesterday. He is a prominent internet gambling attorney who respresented Casino City in their case against the DOJ. He's also worked with several other sportsbooks and poker companies.

He said the DOJ could start rounding up all kinds of people if they wanted to. Companies like the Sporting News and the Discovery Channel have put up little fight in the cases against them. That's b/c they know they have little leg to stand on.

Also, one other thing Patrick had an opinion on is the ".net" issue. He said that will do absolutely nothing for WPT and others. If the DOJ wanted to come seize the money, they could. The basis for the prior fines and seizure of advertising fees was based on the fees coming from illegal business. Therefore, whether the ad says pokerstars.net or pokerstars.com, the DOJ still sees it as illegal, they just haven't done anything about it yet.

Maybe they won't, who knows.

[TruePoker CEO]

" the holding was that MasterCard was not part of a racketeering conspiracy. '

The alleged underlying predicate offenses pled under RICO required that the Wire Act prohibit internet gambling at online casinos. The District Court expressly found that the Wire Act did not cover online internet casinos. The Federal Court of Appeals expressly affirmed this finding of law.

It does not matter one bit whether the plasintiffs' case was a civl RICO action or a criminal prosecution. The District Court ruled and the Court of Appeals affirmed that the Wire Act does NOT apply beyond sports betting.

Before you go throwing around words like "disingenous", please learn a little statutory construction. Criminal statutes are to be construed narrowly because the United States is a nation of personal freedom. If an act is NOT prohibited by a criminal statute, then, in this land of personal freedom, it IS legal. The Wire Act does not apply to online casinos, according to the Fifth Circuit. So, what other "several Federal laws" do you think do apply to online poker ?

(I happen to agree that large volume affiliates should talk to a knowledgeable lawyer and might want to see about hosting their formal place of business offshore. That does not mean that playing or operating an offshore poker site is illegal however.

I also happen to agree that players should look to local and state law to determine if their individual activity is prohibited.)