TPGK in BB?

[CrMenace]

*grunch*

I like a reraise here. If capped, call down. You are likely ahead. Depending on the limit and player, some will raise almost any top pair.

[Ampelmann]

[ QUOTE ]
And I don't want to c/r a turn with just a TP against 4 opponents. That is probably spewing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see why this is necessarily spewing. The pot is already 7.5BB, we likely get some more if we only call. We have frickin' top pair in a big pot. If we think that a 3-bet on the flop doesn't protect our hand we should call and try to use the turn to protect by betting or c/r'ing (given the turn card doesn't hurt us too much).

However, I think we should just 3-bet it. Put pressure on those that called only one, fold them possibly, put pressure on the raiser.

Folding is clearly the worst option, imo. Our equity is good here, there is no reason to forfeit our share of the pot on the flop for one bet.

If you're not sure whether to raise or call, folding usually is the worst option, since calling is +EV here.

[Ampelmann]

This hand I just played shows why folding is the worst option, even when we think we're beaten.

Reads: All of them are idiots (except hero, of course [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]).

PokerRoom 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (12 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, MP3 calls, Button calls, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (10 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, MP3 calls, Button folds, Hero calls.

River: (13 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16 BB

Results:
Hero has Ts Kd (one pair, kings).
MP2 has Qc Td (high card, king).
MP3 has 2d 2s (one pair, twos).
Outcome: Hero wins 16 BB.

[fabadam]

You're also beaten by set of 9s, not everyone will raise 99 preflop. Plus silly things like J2. The raiser and coldcaller can also have an OESD with QT.

My initial reaction was a call, but the more I think about it, a 3-bet seems good: it's a value bet against everything but the sets, and makes the OESD pay for his draw.

If it's capped, I slow down on the turn.

[kerowo]

[ QUOTE ]
If anyone had the A or higher pocket pair they would of rasied preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Y'all need to get over this kind of thinking right now. People are weird and don't play like you play. Don't think "I'd always raise AJ from MP2 with limpers in front of me becuase that is what Boz and Eeeeeeegah said to do so this guy can't have AJ" You have no reads at this table so don't think you do.

Without reads I don't think a 3-bet does much good here. The pot is already good sized and lots of micro players don't like folding the flop. We are in pretty good shape against the range of hands MP2 could have, but not good enough to 3-bet. Especially since we don't know how aggro this guy is so we don't know what a cap would mean.

On the turn I'm probably checking this to the raisor and kicking myself if it gets checked through (assuming I'm UI). If I hit my king I'll donk and hope I'm not drawing to a full house against someone's straight. Same with the river.

But please, stop thinking that you are playing yourself and everyone plays like you do.

[ericyp]

I did 3 bet the flop.

Hero is BB, and dealt K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

7 limpers, I check it through.

Flop
2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] j [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

sb checks, I bet, UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, UTG+3 raises, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, sb folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG folds, UTG+2 calls, UTG+3 calls, MP2 calls

Turn (4 players)

Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero...

[Christian_Peters]

[ QUOTE ]
This hand I just played shows why folding is the worst option, even when we think we're beaten.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think your preflop call here was terrible.
AND I don't like anecdotal evidence. For every hand you can pull up that shows why we should play TPdK hyper aggressively OOP against a large field, I can show you 10 hands where it failed terribly.

[SoftcoreRevolt]

Bet. I'm not worried about someone just having a queen, but it could be one of those likely hands UTG3 has. But still, this is a pretty easy bet.

[Ampelmann]

[ QUOTE ]
I think your preflop call here was terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why is that? The raiser is a lag, he could have just about any suited face and any pp. The colcallers could have almost any 2 cards. I don't like to fold 2 broadways pf when I put in less than 1/10 of the pot.

[ QUOTE ]
AND I don't like anecdotal evidence.

[/ QUOTE ]
ack

[knockonwood]

I raise this and see what the turn brings. We are only behing IMO J9, 99, or a set of 2's. I think it is too unlikey that someone has AJ or JJ witjout a PFR.