Is it still a "suckout" even if the card was free?

[UreAteUp2]

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Poker winnings come from other peoples mistakes. His mistake was not betting the nuts (Set of K) after the flop. He should have bet half/all the pot so the odds are not there to call your draw.

Nice hand.

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Your telling me your laying down a nut straight draw with 2 cards to come even if your not getting pot odds to make the play?... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]...hell fire would I love to play poker against someone who does it entirely by the book... [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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LOL, I would love to play poker against someone who calls potsized bets in raised pots with a gutshot.

OP raised to $15 preflop in this hand, meaning the pot was about $45 on the flop. If villain had potted the flop, OP would be getting 2:1 to call on a draw that was worse than 10:1 to hit, thus a call would be a mistake according to the FTOP (a ten is hero's only out against a set of kings). In a 1-2 game, hero is very unlikely to have the implied odds needed to make this call, even if he stacks villain every time he hits his draw. 11 out of ten times, hero will lose $45, meaning he has to win almost $500 ($495 actually) to profit on his call. No way is he winning that much everytime in a 1-2 game, as villain's stack was likely much less than $500.

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Gotcha...I agree with you if villian had made a pot sized bet post flop then hero might have some big problems and issues to think about. If it were only a 1/2 pot then your getting 2:1 odds on your money on a 1:5 odds. Not the worst call in the world to make.

[gmack15]

Only 45 in the pot after the flop. Yeah if villian bets 45 on the flop, i am laying this down. If the pot was much bigger, then I might consider calling. No reason to go broke in a small pot...Not nearly enough money to justify a gut shot call with 1 over(still behind even if we hit the A) and no flush draw.

Need 1 to 10 odds on the call...pot is only 45... If he bets say 20 and you call, hoping the guy in LP calls, then sure, it might be correct since it is a multiway pot drawing to the semi-nuts. The implied odds are there if we hit our straight, but we have to hope the board doesn't pair.

Villain should have reraised pf with KK..another mistake he made...

[TyFuji]

I'm sick of people who complain about suckouts when an opponent played just fine. If someone calls a big all-in with a draw without getting the odds to chase it and catches, they sucked out. If they called with the pot laying them good odds, or semi-bluffed all in and caught it, they were just making a play. The other "suckout" that bothers me is when someone flops the second nuts, pushes into the nuts, and catches to come from behind.

Or maybe I just don't like when people complain.

[Jeff76]

My favorite hand along these lines was when I flopped a set and bet out, half the pot. Villan calls and the turn puts out a three flush on the board. I check and he checks behind. The river pairs the board and I bet out again. He pushes all in and I call. He has the flush, I have the full house.

"Nice Catch", he types.

"ty"

[kak1154]

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My favorite hand along these lines was when I flopped a set and bet out, half the pot. Villan calls and the turn puts out a three flush on the board. I check and he checks behind. The river pairs the board and I bet out again. He pushes all in and I call. He has the flush, I have the full house.

"Nice Catch", he types.

"ty"

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Haha, nh.

I say this all the time on Poker Stars....There are no "Bad Beats"...there is only "That's Poker". Unless you go in with the flat out Nuts you have a chance to loose and sometimes that 1% chance is going to come up. That's life in the NL lane. It is why a lot of people don't play it...and really believing that phrase allows me to sleep fine at night even if I loose a big amount or but in a tournament. As long as I get my cards in with the best I sleep well no matter what.

[runout_mick]

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As long as I get my cards in with the best or get caught making a +ev play I sleep well no matter what.

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[nuts]

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Gotcha...I agree with you if villian had made a pot sized bet post flop then hero might have some big problems and issues to think about. If it were only a 1/2 pot then your getting 2:1 odds on your money on a 1:5 odds. Not the worst call in the world to make.

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Actually it's 3:1 I think, and you're 10.5-1 to make your gutshot on the turn. 5-1 only counts if you get a free river card.

[Jeff76]

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Well anyway this guy says to me tonight that the comment I made about me hoping he doesn't suck out on me was stupid because I really sucked out on him first.

[/ QUOTE ]BTW, according to this guys definition of a suck out, you shouldn't be playing AK because when you hit your TPTK you've sucked out on a lower pair. And suited connectors are right out.

Winning at NL HE not about having the best starting hands, or flop hands, or whatever. In fact, it's not even about having the best hand when the dealing's done. It's about extracting the most value from your winners and losing the least on your losers. To think in terms like your opponent where his best hand was "supposed" to win shows that he doesn't understand poker.

And this is why poker is profitable [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I think the proper response to him is "Good point, guess luck was on my side today."

[AKQJ10]

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"Nice Catch", he types.

"ty"

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With a stack of about $200 in a $2-5 game, I picked up two black kings and raised to $20. I got three callers.

Flop comes something like J82, two hearts. I bet out $75 and get check-raised all in. Villain doesn't turn over his hand.

Turn is the king of hearts -- NOW he turns it over, T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I implore the dealer to pair the board, and the river is a beatiful deuce, doubling me up. Villain shoots his mouth off several times that session about how lucky I got, how he was a favorite with a flush + gutshot. (He's actually wrong, he's a slight underdog with two cards to come, but by then neither of us should be folding if we knew each other's cards.)

I love when a T7s-cold-caller thinks I gave him a bad beat. Just the right to crow about how I put all the money in with a disadvantage, even if it's not true, should keep him in that game for a long time.

I'm sure he figured, "If I catch my flush, I could stack him." Yeah, buddy, for FORTY BIG BLINDS!

Bummer I don't live in Missouri and can't take his money regularly.