UTG+1 with JJ full table how short is short enough to push?

[SumZero]

Live tournament early, top 18 pay ~80 players left, 10 at a table. Blinds are 100-200. Average stack is about ~3750. Standard raises opening raises at this level have been 700 or 800 chips. UTG folds to you in UTG+1 and you have JJ and your chip stack is X. What value of X is the biggest value that you open push all-in?

Assuming you have X+100 chips (so more chips than you push all in) what is your line with JJ in UTG+1?

[Dave D]

The second part of this poll makes no sense. Having 5% or less more stack (x+100) doesn't change anything.

Having around 10 BBs is when I push TT+. I think anything less than 14 BBs and it's pretty standard to push, especially given position.

[willie]

the first poll is too close, there is no set number


at 100/200? i'm cramming w/ 2500 was what i think i voted.

if i raise and get reraised i'm felting to see a race or a cooler.

[SumZero]

[ QUOTE ]
The second part of this poll makes no sense. Having 5% or less more stack (x+100) doesn't change anything.

Having around 10 BBs is when I push TT+. I think anything less than 14 BBs and it's pretty standard to push, especially given position.

[/ QUOTE ]

The first part of the poll is what is the absolute most that you are willing to push all-in with. Once you have more than that (assume 100 chip is the smallest chip) what is your "real poker" move is what the second question is asking.

If you push with 10xBB but not with 10xBB+100 chips then you choose 2000 on the first poll and choose what you'd do on the second with 2100. It can't be push because if you'd push with 2100 then 2000 isn't the right answer on the first poll.

Alright so you say anything less than 14BBs and it's pretty standard to push. So let's say that is 2800 and you push with that but not 2900. Now question 2 becomes what is your non-push line with 2900. If you push up to 3200 but not 3300 the question is what is your non-push line with 3300.

[SumZero]

[ QUOTE ]
the first poll is too close, there is no set number

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, after the fact you can bucketize some of the close numbers. I wanted to list all the options assuming that the smallest chip in play is 100 (which was the situation in a live tournament I was playing in recently). For instance in the early going there are 3 votes for 2000 (10x BB) and 3 votes for 2500 +/- 100 (group the 2400,2500,2600 voters) so I think those two are close to the same. Hopefully with enough votes we will see a histogram that is a rough bell curve or bimodal distribution.

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The second part of this poll makes no sense. Having 5% or less more stack (x+100) doesn't change anything.

Having around 10 BBs is when I push TT+. I think anything less than 14 BBs and it's pretty standard to push, especially given position.

[/ QUOTE ]

The first part of the poll is what is the absolute most that you are willing to push all-in with. Once you have more than that (assume 100 chip is the smallest chip) what is your "real poker" move is what the second question is asking.

If you push with 10xBB but not with 10xBB+100 chips then you choose 2000 on the first poll and choose what you'd do on the second with 2100. It can't be push because if you'd push with 2100 then 2000 isn't the right answer on the first poll.

Alright so you say anything less than 14BBs and it's pretty standard to push. So let's say that is 2800 and you push with that but not 2900. Now question 2 becomes what is your non-push line with 2900. If you push up to 3200 but not 3300 the question is what is your non-push line with 3300.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok that makes a lot of sense.

The issue with JJ here is position. Pushing is almost never wrong unless you have more than 15 BBs, and even then I think a lot of the people here would say push it.

I make a standard raise PF here if I'm not pushing 3x, maybe 4x the BB, call an all in, and play the flop, probably c-betting.

If I'm MP3 or so, I'm definatly more likely to just standard raise than push.

And just so we're clear, limping JJ, pretty much ever, is horrible. You might find a situation once every 50 tournaments or something, maybe.