Calling From The Big Blind

[London Pat]

I would be grateful for people's thoughts on when it is appropriate to call from the big blind with trash hands. Here's a simplified example:

Blinds are 100-200. Assume all stacks are average at about T8000 (i.e. well over 20xBB - think the second hour of an online rebuy tourney) and you have no knowledge of the other players involved.

MP raises to 600 and gets two LP callers.
If you are in the big blind with 84o, it costs 400 to call into a pot of 2100, odds of approximately 5/1. Should you make this call?

Regardless of the answer to this specific situation, the obvious next question is what odds would you need to call with any two cards? And finally, what if your stack size was lower (say, T3000), would that affect the decision?

Thanks for your help. This is a common situation in which I often feel I have made the wrong decision.

[DarrenX]

While you may be getting 5:1 on a junk hand like 84o, you have to think of the odds of flopping a big hand (two pair or trips) with it. 24:1 for trips and 49:1 for two pair. Even with the implied odds of stacking someone when this does happen, you're still not getting those odds with the stack sizes mentioned.

In the situation you mention, I'll probably call any pair, all suited aces, most suited connectors, AJo+, KTo+ QJo, TJo.

Oh, and to call any two? I could justify calling a 3x raise with two calles with any two when you have at least 50x blinds. The current pot odds really don't matter much in comparison to implied odds. Hope this helps.

[zoobird]

Not sure what my answer to your exact question is, but one BIG consideration for me is whether my opponent is very tight post-flop. If I think they'll fold to a continuation bet with most unpaired hands, then it becomes a lot more +EV for me to call then if they won't.

[Matador225]

Everything is dictated by the size of your stack in comparison to the blinds and antes (as well as your opponent's). Your calling standards will vary according to this. Of course you should also take into consideration the skill level of the villain (ie how likely they are to go broke with TP, etc) but stack sizes are the primary consideration.

[stevepa]

I would say the only time I would call in your situation (raise to 3x and several callers) with 84o is if I had somewhere around 2-3bb before posting.

Darrenx, 84o never has implied odds unless your opponent is ridiculously terrible.

Steve

[zoobird]

Just realized that people called the initial raiser. Forget it...fold no matter.

[allenciox]

Keep in mind that flopping two pair or trips (or a straight) is not even a good result here, as if you get action in these cases it is likely that you are second best! These hands are stack-killers trying to play them in No-Limit Hold Em out of position, chuck them without a second thought.