Flop decision

Aaron W. · #1 08-10-2006, 02:10 PM

You have J9s on the button. There's a MP limper and it's folded to you. You choose to limp instead of iso-raising the limper because the blinds are a bit loose and MP likes to chase too many hands postflop (so that you can't effectively steal the pot on the flop). The blinds limp along, so it's 4 to the flop.

The flop is K96 rainbow, none of your suit. SB checks and BB bets. BB is a loose preflop, but a weakish player postflop. On a board like this, a bet represents a strong 9 (broadway kicker) or better. MP calls. You're getting 6:1 and you know you're behind. You are a little worse than 8:1 to make two pair or trips on the turn.

1) Is the preflop limp good or bad?
2) What is the best flop play?

KingOtter · #2 08-10-2006, 02:16 PM

1. Good, you're pretty sure there're 3 coming along and you have position.
2. You're in a good position to raise it to get a free card play, so I do.

kerowo · #3 08-10-2006, 02:16 PM

If your read of BB is right, you wouldn't have folded him with a raise. If MP is chasing a draw that most likely gives him a big Q or J, probably not going to get rid of him for one either. However, that's all based on the flop and your reads. I don't mind the limp although I'm not playing J9s much.

You think you are behing, and could be drawing almost dead to QT or K9, aren't getting odds to call, and are pretty sure a raise isn't going to get you the pot. I think it's a fold, but in the heat of the hand I'd probably call and re-evaluate on the turn.

Scary_Tiger · #4 08-10-2006, 02:16 PM

1) Preflop limp is good. Assuming limper is weak and bad, this is very profitable.

2) I would fold the flop. Our reverse implied odds suck pretty hard when we spew against KJ, Q9, A9, K9. Also, a J completes a gutshot for QT, which would be in MP's range. Even if we do make the best hand on the turn, we're still subject to plenty of redraws on the redraw in the form of straights and higher trips/two pair.

feroder_zb · #5 08-10-2006, 02:18 PM

1) Limp is good. J9s has a small equity edge against the average loose player's hand, but the blinds have ATC, so you're likely to win a fair bit more than 25% of the time.

2) Raise for free card play. Your outs are clean and if BB is weak post flop, like you said he his, you're likely to get the free card or else find out you're farther behind than you thought.

car ramrod · #6 08-10-2006, 02:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1) Preflop limp is good. Assuming limper is weak and bad, this is very profitable.

2) I would fold the flop. Our reverse implied odds suck pretty hard when we spew against KJ, Q9, A9, K9. Also, a J completes a gutshot for QT, which would be in MP's range. Even if we do make the best hand on the turn, we're still subject to plenty of redraws on the redraw in the form of straights and higher trips/two pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Scary_Tiger · #7 08-10-2006, 02:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]

2) Raise for free card play. Your outs are clean and if BB is weak post flop, like you said he his, you're likely to get the free card or else find out you're farther behind than you thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

How so?

TarHeel100 · #8 08-10-2006, 02:26 PM

1.) I'm ok w/ the preflop limp
2.) If by weak you mean the BB is passive after the flop, then I fold this. You are probably behind and you aren't getting the pot odds you need to chase. I fold.

feroder_zb · #9 08-10-2006, 02:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

2) Raise for free card play. Your outs are clean and if BB is weak post flop, like you said he his, you're likely to get the free card or else find out you're farther behind than you thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

How so?

[/ QUOTE ]

Aye, you're right. Mine was a statement made in the heat of battle (i.e. I just fired off a reply without thinking). Our outs are definitely not clean although they're not as horribly dirtied as they might be. Having given it more thought I think this should be a fold. Even if Hero is likely to get a free card, hitting an out might just leave him farther behind. Thanks for the check-up.

teajay · #10 08-10-2006, 02:28 PM

Preflop limp is fine given your reads of loose blinds. If I thought I could get this HU I would have thrown in the raise.

Flop I'm going to dump this hand. MP likely doesn't have anything, you claim he's a chaser. BB's weakness tells me I'm probably behind and don't have much of a redraw. Marginal hand (that is likely beat) in a not so big pot = toss my hand away.

(I hope I passed the test [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img])