How's my flop play?

feroder_zb · #1 08-09-2006, 05:41 PM

My read on BB is that he's a little loose PF and pretty passive. The other players to see the flop were pretty tight.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, BB raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

I limped 88 for set value here as at this table it is usually 3-4 players to a flop and I noticed that by limping in EP I could encourage limpers behind. I did consider raising though.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, CO folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

The flop raise seemed like a great place to protect my hand in this burgeoning pot. Is there anyone out there who thinks I am not horribly behind when BB 3-bets me? I made a "weak-call" so I don't give the image that I can be pushed around planning to fold UI on the turn.

MrWookie · #2 08-09-2006, 05:45 PM

14:1 on the peel needing to make up 4 BB on 2 streets if you luck out. Your flush outs aren't completely worthless. I guess you can call the 3bet, but it's really, really thin. The initial raise was fine.

kumarshah · #3 08-09-2006, 05:47 PM

For me:
PF limp is fine.

If BB is passive PF, means he has a pretty good hand, I think JJ-AA and I would fold the flop UI.

kerowo · #4 08-09-2006, 06:46 PM

I think one of my on-going leaks is calling these flop 3-bets knowing I'm going to fold the turn UI. I'm really thinking that the meta game can be overrated at .5/1 Party and certainly .10/.20 Stars where I'm at now so I think I'm going to be picking my calls a little better; requiring at least some kind of read that villain could do this with a draw or just ace high before I continue to the turn.

davelin · #5 08-09-2006, 06:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If BB is passive PF, means he has a pretty good hand, I think JJ-AA and I would fold the flop UI.

[/ QUOTE ]

Boo! [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

TarHeel100 · #6 08-09-2006, 06:55 PM

You noted that BB is a pretty passive player. I guess everyone has a different definition of pretty passive, but the pretty passive players I see don't typically make continuation bets with unimproved overcards. Also, if they are raising preflop, then they typically have a monster pair.

If the BB were laggy, I think a raise is ok, but given the read of BB being passive, I just fold the flop. I think it is too likely you are way behind.

davelin · #7 08-09-2006, 06:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You noted that BB is a pretty passive player. I guess everyone has a different definition of pretty passive, but the pretty passive players I see don't typically make continuation bets with unimproved overcards. Also, if they are raising preflop, then they typically have a monster pair.

If the BB were laggy, I think a raise is ok, but given the read of BB being passive, I just fold the flop. I think it is too likely you are way behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right, there are many definitions of passive but I think of the typical online player as passive and I still see them raise pre-flop with overcards and c-bet this flop.

bozlax · #8 08-09-2006, 07:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think one of my on-going leaks is calling these flop 3-bets knowing I'm going to fold the turn UI. I'm really thinking that the meta game can be overrated at .5/1 Party and certainly .10/.20 Stars where I'm at now so I think I'm going to be picking my calls a little better; requiring at least some kind of read that villain could do this with a draw or just ace high before I continue to the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this, except that you also need to make sure that you aren't folding when the odds say call. i.e. don't over-compensate.

Oh, and nice use of your word-a-day calendar.

kerowo · #9 08-09-2006, 07:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Oh, and nice use of your word-a-day calendar.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, my vocab is so large I write the word-a-day calendar, and just for verisimilitude I also turned it into a screen saver, a cookie file, and those cute little day-of-the-week panties, except they are word-a-day panties.

00Snitch · #10 08-09-2006, 07:39 PM

the flop raise is nice. the advice ill give would be to fold to the 3 bet, you really do only have 2 outs.

however, your implied odds are good in this hand with this guy showing alot of aggression, so you could justify a peel. but you will have to give it away on the turn if you dont hit.

interestingly, i think if you didnt hold the 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] it would be an easier fold, not because of the flush value the 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] gives you, but because your outs are cleaner when holding it.

i would be interested to hear how many outs you are asigning his bdfd mrwookie? half of one?