LIMCASH - beginners question

[WildJack]

I played some 0.5/1 FL HU when UB had these tables. However I barely got even with the rake taking 5BB from me per 100 hands.

Went to 6max FL, but after getting up in limits to 10/20, I realised I had serious problems leaving a table when I got a fish HU. However, I always ended up being the losing guy.

Therefore I'm back to FL HU at 0.5/1 as a starter, so as to be better equipped for those times at the 10/20 tables when I just can't leave.

So, to the questions:

1. How big a bankroll in BB terms are needed when playing FL HU?

2. How much is a realistic winning rate in BB/100 (at what level and what rake as I assume that the percentage of rake is higher at the lower limits)?

3. What amount of BB's do you normally buy in with? I normally buy-in for 25BB for me to evaluate the strength of the opponent if I lose them, and then decide if I want to reload. Then again, I assume that I could buy-in for my entire bankroll, and still evaluate after a short while.

4. How does the winning session vs. losing sessions look like?

[Guruman]

benthj:

you have serious bankroll issues if you jumped from .50/1 to 10/20 very quickly. You also probably are deluding yourself as to who the better player is in some spots.

a couple of guidelines:

1)Never play headsup less than 10/20 without significant rakeback plus bonuses. If you've signed up at UB without rakeback, take a look at moving your roll to another site. There are plenty out there with good RB deals. If you're plaing HU without rakeback you've given your entire edge to the house, plus some.

If you're playing HU above your roll while deluded about your edge and no rakeback to cushion you're heading for brokeville. Hopefully that base is covered.

2)Never assume a player who is beating you is a fish.

Its true that people can go on sick runs in HU play, but be honest with yourself about who was putting his money in with the worst hand on every street. Sometime expert HU play looks pretty fishy, and the results bear themselves out quickly in HU play when the edge is significant. Learn to identify opponents against whom you have little or no edge and have the discipline to end the match on your terms.

3)have more bankroll than you need - espeically if you're playing for cash instead of tourneys or if you need to withdraw.

you will go on a run of cards longer and worse than you ever dreamed. when you reach that point, take solace in the fact that somewhere in the future you'll go on a run worse than that.

[toke]

I would just forget playing limit cash hu at anything lower than 10/20 because of the ridiculously high edge you have to have just to beat the rake. 10/20 with 50 cent cap or 20/40 with $1 is where I draw the line usually. Maybe you could try lhe sng:s at pokerstars? I'm sure you can get one going quite easily with $21 buy-in or so.

[WildJack]

@ Guruman

Thanks. Sure some valid points you have there, so let me answer them from an end.

1. I played 0.5/1 HU while playing 1/2 and 2/4 6max FL. I gradually moved up in limits in the 6max game, but fully stopped playing HU because UB removed the lower games, and I couldn’t find anything interesting at the other 5-6 sites I visited regularly (the rake was even worse than UB’s).

Bankroll wise I am very conservative. Though for the first time in my poker career I’m playing 10/20 6max FL with “only” a 500BB bankroll which is probably a slight bit short of what I should have However after losing some 6max sessions that ended HU (which is why I want to get better at HU), I am not taking a single shot (no matter how good the table is) at 10/20 until I have at least 600BB at that level. I’m winning overall when the table is between 3-6 players but those few (and are really talking a few) hands I have played HU, have taken me back somewhat 150BB or 30% of my roll.

I have plenty of RB and bonuses coming my way, so that is not an issue.

2. No, my fish comment was more related to the fact that when the games were 6 handed they were really bad, and the reason I stayed at the table when it came HU. However, didn’t seem like that good an idea 

3. Agree, I need to build much more bankroll. I’m down to 700BB when looking at the 5/10 6max tables which I will grind the next couple of weeks/months. I don’t need to withdraw, and actually never have withdrawn a dime as my fulltime job covers my costs. So winnings just go into the bankroll for the future.

Still, I would like some further elaboration of what I need to do. I have promised myself that I will leave tables now when they gets HU. This doesn’t mean however that I will not practice regular HU game at lower limits, starting at 0.5/1, just to get better at this, and eventually (hopefully) also be willing to play HU when everyone except one person (and me) leaves the 6max tables I’m playing.

Please also take a look at my question below, as I would like a second opinion on that.

@ Toke

Get your point. However, I need to start somewhere to learn the trade. I’ll better get a lot of training by playing 0.5/1 (though not making a dime on it because of the rake), than sitting down at a too high limit table and start losing.

I have thought about SnG’s but don’t like the idea of the blinds increasing, as this can give me a wrong picture of were I stand, if loosing slightly on low levels, and winning at f.x. level 4. If this gives me a win, but I actually just were “lucky” to win my hands when the blinds were higher, I’m not sure I will not just be fooling myself into believing that I’m a better player that I actually am.

Hope you will reply to the thought I have here.