Did I push this too hard

easye · #1 08-07-2006, 10:52 AM

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $19.50
UTG+1: $49.20
CO: $61.40
Button: $112.80
Hero: $43.75
BB: $58.90

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
3 folds, Button raises to $1, Hero calls, BB raises to $4, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($12, 3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $7, Button raises to $14, Hero raises all-in $39.75, 2 folds.
Uncalled bets: $25.75 returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: $47

My reasoning for pushing at this point was that there was some pre-flop and post-flop agrression being shown. I wanted to play the rest of this pot HU rather than against 2 opponents. I would have thought that one of them would have come along. BTW, BB later told me he folded AK - good fold by hime.

Should I have played this a little slower? Or does my reasoning seem correct?

noggindoc · #2 08-07-2006, 10:54 AM

Nope looks fine though I'd lead the flop and hope to three bet all in. If someone has Ax clubs you'd be pissed you slowplayed.

FoldEqu1ty · #3 08-07-2006, 10:59 AM

I had just typed out
[ QUOTE ]
Nope. Nice bet withh flush draw on board. I think...

[/ QUOTE ]
But re-examining I think this spot is a perfect spot for a squeeze play. If you flat call, BB will almost certainly not fold. If he raises, gravy. If he calls, you've got yourself a 3-way pot with $54 in the middle and $26 behind, with BB and Button battling it out and you just presumably tagging along with some kind of mediocre hand /draw. Flush draw is no biggie. +++++++EV to call IMO.

FabledHero · #4 08-07-2006, 11:06 AM

pushing is definately good here, a lot of plyaers are bad enough to call with ak. No reason to slowplay things at these stakes, because they'll pay you off anyway. If anohter club comes you'd get no more action from ak anyway, so many scare cards can fall, might as well, just get it in, make the draws fold, and if ak wants to call you, or even aj for that matter, it's all good.

though i'd persoanlly lead out here, hoping to get a raise, then push. I like betting out with my sets, they tend to put me on draws or some hand i'm not sure where i'm at.

Spurs79 · #5 08-07-2006, 11:17 AM

Given the aggression shown by BB coupled with the texture of the flop I would consider this play as well executed.

BB initially could be on the steal and continuation betting but to that end its ballsy and unlikely given the flop and OOP to the button. More likely he is holding AA to JJ and AK to AJ (7 hands of which we are beat by only 2 currently).
The buttons range of hands would appear similar.

The flop shows a flush draw and also potential to fill a straight on either the turn or river.

Given there are two active players each of which has approx 2/7 chance of having you beat I am not sure I would commit myself to an all-in bet. However the flop is dangerous and the turn and river could both provide dangerous carsd that could weaken your holding significantly. To that end, for good or ill, I think it was best to take the hand down now before any potential draws take you down. If you are beaten by a larger trips so beit.

Tough question though, no doubt. Im starting to doubt myself the more I think about the potential holdings of your opponents. Approx beaten 4/7 (2 plys at 2/7) woudl suggest a losing play.

FoldEqu1ty · #6 08-07-2006, 11:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
just get it in, make the draws fold

[/ QUOTE ]

If getting it in will make the draws fold then its a bad idea to do so. We make more money when draws call without odds than when they fold without odds dude.

Myltik · #7 08-07-2006, 11:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $19.50
UTG+1: $49.20
CO: $61.40
Button: $112.80
Hero: $43.75
BB: $58.90

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
3 folds, Button raises to $1, Hero calls, BB raises to $4, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($12, 3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $7, Button raises to $14, Hero raises all-in $39.75, 2 folds.
Uncalled bets: $25.75 returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: $47

My reasoning for pushing at this point was that there was some pre-flop and post-flop agrression being shown. I wanted to play the rest of this pot HU rather than against 2 opponents. I would have thought that one of them would have come along. BTW, BB later told me he folded AK - good fold by hime.

Should I have played this a little slower? Or does my reasoning seem correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont mind the play at all. Way too many bad cards in the deck that could have ruined it for u. villains could have easily had KQ clubs, other suited club connectors for straight draws too.

FoldEqu1ty · #8 08-07-2006, 11:30 AM

Welcome to the forums Myltik! Good to see you're posting your thoughts already.

Just a tiny thing, you shouldn't bother quoting the hand when you reply, wastes some space is all.

4_2_it · #9 08-07-2006, 11:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just get it in, make the draws fold

[/ QUOTE ]

If getting it in will make the draws fold then its a bad idea to do so. We make more money when draws call without odds than when they fold without odds dude.

[/ QUOTE ]

So why you advocate a smooth call to give BB perfect odds to stack hero? There are straight and flush draws galore here.

With bottom set on a B-way draw heavy board, A B3B line gets tons of value from draws and worst made hands.

TurdFerguson · #10 08-07-2006, 11:54 AM

The flop push in this situation is the correct play, IMO -- you want people w/ AK to make a mistake calling you, and you want to make it -EV for a FD to call as well.

Slightly related thread hijack: Played 3-5 NL live this past weekend and this exact board appeared when I had JJ vs. 2 other players. Unfortunately for me, we each hit set over set over set (UTG had AA, MP had 88, I had JJ on button). Obviously, MP and I both lost our stacks, although the turn was the case A to further twist the knife. But I bring my situation up because it is exceedingly rare to be in a set-over-set situation, so in this hand OP shouldn't be worried about only getting called by hands that beat him, e.g. AA or JJ. If either villain has a bigger set, you're getting stacked anyway. Get your money in w/ the best of it and hope a naked AK comes along.