SNGPT: categorizing errors

[kevkev60614]

Using SNGPT, there are two types of errors a player can make.
1) You fail to push where pushing is +EV.
2) You push where pushing is -EV.

I'd say 90% of my errors are Type 1, and I'd guess the vast majority of users find the majority of their errors are Type 1.

As we progress as players, we make less errors according to SNGPT. But do we also bring the ratio closer to 50/50? I suspect we do.

Thoughts on this? And what percentage of your errors are Type 1? Has this changed over time?

[blackize]

I have posted about this before. Everyone starts their journey in SNGs not pushing enough. Then they acquire some knowledge and/or SNGPT and overcompensate by pushing too much and not calling enough. Then gradually they start to balance out.

I also disagree that one needs to take every +EV push.

[EscapePlan9]

Similarly, the majority of my errors are Type 1. I sometimes knowingly go against the advice of SNG-PT and fold. Like after I've been pushing quite a few hands recently, I'll fold 75o on the BTN when I should be pushing again.

I'd actually say the majority of my Type 1 errors are because I know I should be pushing, but when I've been pushing a lot recently, I'll tighten my range for a few hands before returning strictly to SNG-PT.

[FeNeF]

Pay more attention to spots where you are calling [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[zabt]

[ QUOTE ]
Using SNGPT, there are two types of errors a player can make.
1) You fail to push where pushing is +EV.
2) You push where pushing is -EV.

[/ QUOTE ]I think a more common error made when using SNGPT is getting the ranges wrong (or being lazy and only using the default ranges).

When I'm playing SNGs, I also find myself making errors by:

3) not calling when I should; and
4) calling when I shouldn't.

[NHFunkii]

there are also type 3 and type 4 errors (not calling enough, calling too much)

I'm pretty sure my most common error is type 2.

[kevkev60614]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a more common error made when using SNGPT is getting the ranges wrong (or being lazy and only using the default ranges).

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, incorrect ranges are definitely the most common mistake. I wasn't clear enough in my OP, I guess. What I was trying to say is that when reviewing HHs, I set villain ranges the best I can (widening ranges if I've frequently been pushing) and I STILL find 90% of my errors are Type 1.

It's also true that one can make errors by calling or folding to pushes incorrectly, but I run into those situations less often at the $22s. Not enough pushbotters there.

I'm surprised by blackize and NHFunkii. I thought players making over 50% Type 2 errors would be a rarity. I guess they get more common as you increase your buy-in?

Another question: If I make a Type 1 error of -0.5% and a Type 2 error of -0.5% (assuming perfect ranges), are they equally grievous? You're risking your entire stack when you make a Type 2 error, and this serves not only to decrease your EV but to increase your variance. I guess if you're properly brolled, both errors are equally bad. Does this make sense?

[blackize]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised by blackize and NHFunkii. I thought players making over 50% Type 2 errors would be a rarity. I guess they get more common as you increase your buy-in?


[/ QUOTE ]

Im by no means high stakes. But think about this. You start playing SNGs. You do ok but want to improve so you buy Harrington on Holdem. You see the website on the back and head over to 2+2. You start reading this forum and see all these threads advocating any two from the SB and Button etc. You go HOLY CRAP I SHOULD BE PUSHING ALL THE FREAKIN TIME!

Then eventually you learn WHY you are pushing and learn to pick your spots effectively and decrease the amount of pushing you do.

Same thing goes for calling, most will start by calling pushes too much. Then they learn about "first in vigorish" or whatever and almost never call pushes. Then they learn effective calling against specific ranges and rebalance their play again.

[ QUOTE ]
If I make a Type 1 error of -0.5% and a Type 2 error of -0.5% (assuming perfect ranges), are they equally grievous? You're risking your entire stack when you make a Type 2 error, and this serves not only to decrease your EV but to increase your variance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your variance increases every time your ROI decreases. A type 2 error of .5% will lower your ROI, but a type 1 error of .5% will ALSO lower your ROI. A type two error is more egregious IMO because it will always be -.5% while a type 1 error can actually be much less than that because of the chance for two other players getting into a battle.

[RowlfTheDog]

[ QUOTE ]
Similarly, the majority of my errors are Type 1. I sometimes knowingly go against the advice of SNG-PT and fold. Like after I've been pushing quite a few hands recently, I'll fold 75o on the BTN when I should be pushing again.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that's an error of Type 1. After pushing a bunch of hands, people naturally widen their expectation of your range, which widens their range. I think it is a mistake *not* to tighten up appropriately after a bout of pushing because of your modified recent table image.

I love catching a monster after a bout of pushing and getting a bunch of spite calls [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]