QJs vs PFR

SixT4 · #1 08-04-2006, 08:40 AM

Only played a few hands at the table, no reads.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero calls, 7 folds, BB raises, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (7.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero ?

DrModern · #2 08-04-2006, 08:44 AM

Check behind on the turn; he's told you you're behind on the flop and if so you've only got 5 outs. On the other hand, looking over the entire hand, it looks like this guy was getting super aggro with AK UI. But I'd still check behind on the the turn. Facing the river bet, I just call here.

KingOtter · #3 08-04-2006, 09:05 AM

I dunno, I think I'm leaning toward fold. You have to be good about 16% of the time here, so it really depends on a read.

I guess with no read you can call here.

OziBattler · #4 08-04-2006, 09:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Check behind on the turn; he's told you you're behind on the flop and if so you've only got 5 outs. On the other hand, looking over the entire hand, it looks like this guy was getting super aggro with AK UI. But I'd still check behind on the the turn. Facing the river bet, I just call here.

[/ QUOTE ]

villians play is strange but I cant say I agree. I mean villians flop 3 bet might say hero is beat but that turn check negates it. I'd say you lose value by not betting the turn if checked to. the other guy got in the last bet on the flop so I expect him to bet the flop. checking seems strange.

looks like villian lucksacked the river. whether its a +ev call, I dunno either...I used to say I would call this to get the read and hope that I can make up any lost EV on later hands but my w2SD is too high and it seems to me most of the time I just dont make up that ev cos I never see villian again [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

DrModern · #5 08-04-2006, 09:27 AM

You really think there's value in betting the turn? I suppose there's a possibility he's doing this with UI overs or a PP just under top pair, but I'd like to have some sense of who this villain is before I bet the turn. Against some willing to go to 3 with air, I like betting a whole lot more.

OziBattler · #6 08-04-2006, 09:50 AM

yep, I do. I think that turn check means weakness more than strength. a CR from villian would no make sense here since villian had the lead on the flop.

perhaps checking behind the turn can induce a bet from villian on the river, which I would call but I dont want to give a hand we beat a chance to draw out.

Im sure that our hero will have a nice read if he called.

basically Im a 'value bet' guy and I think this turn is a value bet......(this is where all the poohbahs step in and either berate me or agree with me [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img])

kerowo · #7 08-04-2006, 11:23 AM

A 3-bet on the flop from the pre-flop bettor doesn't mean much without a read. I can see someone playing AK this way as much as KK, AA, or AQ. I like the turn bet but would fold if c/r and mark villain as tricky which could later turn to idiot depending on his play. Not a good card on the river and you can probably fold here but I don't mind a call.

DrModern · #8 08-04-2006, 11:40 AM

Yeah, actually, the turn check is wack. *Maybe* villain is s00per tricky and looking to CR here, but I think I understand why you guys would bet this one.

Xhad · #9 08-04-2006, 11:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, actually, the turn check is wack. *Maybe* villain is s00per tricky and looking to CR here, but I think I understand why you guys would bet this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't quite get your sentiment here. If you think you AREN'T getting c/r'ed, then this is a value bet.

I also think the turn is a bet/fold/note the guy and watch him closely until you have a better read.

I'd also call the river, solely because his line is so bad I don't want to make a semi-tough fold against him just yet.

DrModern · #10 08-04-2006, 12:02 PM

I just meant: I think I grasp why this is a value bet. But at that point in the hand, we don't *know* villain isn't some wierdly tricky player going for a check-raise, though it's unlikely--that's why I emphasized the "maybe." In other words, yeah, I get it, bet the turn.