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#11
08-04-2006, 09:58 AM
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Re: $100 NL Jacks Under Fire on Monotone Board
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Lol people don't normally 4-bet QQ preflop [/ QUOTE ] With all respect, this is wrong. What do you do with QQ besides raise? You're certainly not going to limp. [ QUOTE ] or fold pocket pairs preflop either. [/ QUOTE ] Again. Yes they do. All the time. Hero's re-raise pf screams high PP. If villain had a low PP, he probably would have folded to the $12 re-raise by Hero unless he's a loose player. Without a read, Hero needs to err on the side of caution and assume villain is a reasonably tight player. [ QUOTE ] Give him a range and see if pot odds dictate a call. He could have Ah Ks, As Kh, Ah Qs, As Qh, Ah Ad, As Ad, Kh Kd, Ks Kd, Th Ts etc. i am getting bored but throw in a few lower sets or PPs with flush draw. [/ QUOTE ] Pretty much what I said above, except you broke it down into different suits, which is unnecessary. And I disagree with either AA or KK being in the "likely" range. Both are unlikely, and Aces is extremely unlikely. Villain would have re-re-raised either one of those pf most of the time, anywhere from $30 to all-in. [/ QUOTE ] Raising is different than four betting, and while just about everyone raises qq, most won't four bet. And people don't fold pocket pairs preflop "all the time." They will do it if the raise is big enough, but most people will call a reasonable raise preflop even if they suspect being behind, hoping to hit a set. 
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#12
08-04-2006, 11:19 AM
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Re: $100 NL Jacks Under Fire on Monotone Board
sometimes he has you beat. sometimes you have him crushed. sometimes you guys are sharing equity. i don't really think your choice here matters too much. you might as well call because the pot is pretty big.
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#14
08-04-2006, 11:37 AM
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Re: $100 NL Jacks Under Fire on Monotone Board
[ QUOTE ]
you called and got beat by a flush/over pair...tough [censored]. Get your fishy game out of the gutter and then play me one on one amateur. I wouldve smelled I was beat preflop after the 3.50 raise and laid it down like the shark I am. Live it learn it fish. [/ QUOTE ] Err... ok? The weird thign about this is that i'm not really convinced it's a joke. Anyway, my thoughts: PF: What is everyone talking about? We cannot necessarily rule out QQ-AA, particularly not becuase OP thinks it "warrants" a reraise. that's a meaningless statement. I agree that they are not so likely, but absolutely not to be ruled out. Also, SSNL Party Poker players are not "usually" goign to fold middle pocketpairs. Flop: Yeah. Tough spot. I think this is very close, but a call given the pot odds. We're getting around 2:1 and I think that's about how often we win this pot. Villain can do this with just a big heart, usually the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], but can also have pairs, can also be bluffing, and will sometimes have sets and OPs as well. However the J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] may provide outs against some of villain's holdings that are beating us. I also think villain is fairly weak a surprisingly large % of the time. Villain is usually not going to be way behind in this spot, IMO, but I think we absolutely have 33% equity vs. his range. High variance, but I think it's a call.
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#15
08-04-2006, 12:41 PM
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Re: $100 NL Jacks Under Fire on Monotone Board
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] you called and got beat by a flush/over pair...tough [censored]. Get your fishy game out of the gutter and then play me one on one amateur. I wouldve smelled I was beat preflop after the 3.50 raise and laid it down like the shark I am. Live it learn it fish. [/ QUOTE ] Err... ok? The weird thign about this is that i'm not really convinced it's a joke. Anyway, my thoughts: PF: What is everyone talking about? We cannot necessarily rule out QQ-AA, particularly not becuase OP thinks it "warrants" a reraise. that's a meaningless statement. I agree that they are not so likely, but absolutely not to be ruled out. Also, SSNL Party Poker players are not "usually" goign to fold middle pocketpairs. Flop: Yeah. Tough spot. I think this is very close, but a call given the pot odds. We're getting around 2:1 and I think that's about how often we win this pot. Villain can do this with just a big heart, usually the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], but can also have pairs, can also be bluffing, and will sometimes have sets and OPs as well. However the J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] may provide outs against some of villain's holdings that are beating us. I also think villain is fairly weak a surprisingly large % of the time. Villain is usually not going to be way behind in this spot, IMO, but I think we absolutely have 33% equity vs. his range. High variance, but I think it's a call. [/ QUOTE ] This is all spot on, IMO.
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#16
08-04-2006, 01:01 PM
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Re: $100 NL Jacks Under Fire on Monotone Board
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] you called and got beat by a flush/over pair...tough [censored]. Get your fishy game out of the gutter and then play me one on one amateur. I wouldve smelled I was beat preflop after the 3.50 raise and laid it down like the shark I am. Live it learn it fish. [/ QUOTE ] Err... ok? The weird thign about this is that i'm not really convinced it's a joke. [/ QUOTE ] To respond...yes this was a joke. I am friends with King_S and play with him live often.
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#17
08-04-2006, 01:18 PM
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Re: $100 NL Jacks Under Fire on Monotone Board
[ QUOTE ]
Also, SSNL Party Poker players are not "usually" goign to fold middle pocketpairs. [/ QUOTE ] It isn't even that bad, with only 8:1 against flopping the set, a 12 dollar bet, and 100 dollar effective stacks, and a big hand being advertised by hero. Implied odds are almost there for set value. Add to that the times you manage to detect a weak cbet by AK/AQ etc. on a low/scary flop, and TT-KK on a A high flop, and you can make any PP at least break even here.
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