Winning Without Hand Reading

[NewUser2006]

Is it possible to be a winner at limit hold'em if you don't have any hand reading abilities? If you play a perfect or close to perfect mathematical and game theoretical game with no hand reading whatsoever, at what level will you stop being a winner? (I say stop because I'm certain that there are enough people at the micro-limits who have no hand reading AND aren't playing perfectly).

[AmonRaa]

Ofc its possible. But at some point you have to get that ability if you want to improve your game. I would say you can be winning player in low and mid level LHE playing ABC game.

[slcseas]

The defintion of playing perfectly from a theoretical standpoint is playing a hand as you would if you knew exactly what your opponent has. By not making any sort of read whatsoever, it is then impossible to play "perfectly" from a theory aspect.

As far as perfect mathematically (ie playing pot odds etc) one could expect to have a small amount of success. But, you still need to be able to assess an opponents hand. If you are drawing to a straight for example, the pot odds might be correct to do so but you could already be drawing dead against a flush or higher straight.

I would be surprised if anybody could win at 3/6 or 4/8 without focusing on reads. Even making what seem to be correct mathematical plays, those extra made bets and extra saved bets are pretty much the profit source for limit play.

[ShakeZula06]

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If you play a perfect or close to perfect mathematical and game theoretical game with no hand reading whatsoever,

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this is an oxymoron.

[_TKO_]

I think OP is talking about only worrying about your hand and its strength relative to an average holdem hand. The "oxymoranic" appearance of his(?) statement is due to the fact that any sort of poker theory is indeed based on assumptions about the quality of your opponents' hands. Even if you aren't doing it consciously, you are making these assumptions every time you make a preflop, flop, turn, or river decision.

I suppose that you could do somewhat well if you just tried to make big flushes, big straights, and big pairs, but you certainly wouldn't be maximizing your value (I'm guessing you know this). You would be missing all sorts of value bets, and probably calling down when clearly beat (ie when a passive opponent raises your turn bet with a 4-flush on board). I do suppose there is a breakeven point where your mistakes can still cause you to fare better than your opponents.

By playing almost strictly by the book, you would probably be playing too tight and too aggressive. Your opponents would need to be very loose, and very passive, and most of them would have to be like this. As limits increase, the frequency of such opponents generally decreases, which means that you have to go out and find them. With a little game selection, I figure you could show a profit into 2/4, probably even higher. However, with the conditions laid out in the OP, I doubt such a player would consider game selection at all.