Did I butcher this hand as badly as I think I did?

[GMan42]

I just felt semi-retarded after this hand. Please shame me so I don't play like this again.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, MP2 folds.

River: (8.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

[Nick C]

It sucks that running spades fell, but if you lost to SB, you were most likely going to anyway, if that's any consolation. 2/4 players rarely bet-fold the flop.

I would probably raise the turn, but if SB was leading a flush draw on the flop, you are probably going to get 3-bet. And since SB might also 3-bet with a worse king, it's not like you can fold the river unimproved or anything.

Going ahead and popping the flop is something to consider, but it will often get you checked to on the turn. I think waiting is okay here.

Anyway, on the river, I don't see what else you can do.

[TommyChong]

You have to raise this flop. I know you want to slowplay it but w/ a flush draw out there I don't think it is wise. If the board had been totally uncoordinated then ok, but not this board. If he 3 bets then cap. If he bets out the turn after you have shown this much agg then call it. Calling a river bet might be spew but HU I usually still do with the pot this big. Problem is you have no idea where you stand.

[Psydoc]

I posted a "set of sets" post yesterday and it appeared the majority opinion was to was to be raising the flop to charge draws. Seems like that advice would also apply here. If not, check out my post and lemme know what the differences are compared to this hand.

[SpaceAce]

I know this sounds really simplistic, but it works: When you have a strong hand, raise. It's that simple at $2/$4. Don't smooth-call this flop. Since you did, what the hell, raise the turn.

SpaceAce

[bobhalford]

I don't think SB would do this with a flush draw. He's probably got a worse K in his hand and is trying to make you believe that he doesn't have a K. Of course, you are doing the same thing, trying to pretend like you don't have a K. Or maybe you saw two spades on the board and turned into a wuss or heard some argument in your head for going for overcalls. We all do strange things once in a while and say "Doh!"

If I were to have played this hand, I would have either raised the flop or the turn (If sb has a K, you want to make it multiple bets on all streets. If he has anything else, you want him to pay to draw to his 2-9 outer). You also want the other player to pay to play.

In a raised pot, I generally want to win it and get it over with. Checking and calling is not an option with this particular hand, board, and pot size.

[GMan42]

Thanks all for the reples. What really bothered me after the hand is that SB showed down 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], which means that a raise on any street (even the river) probably would have chased him. I suppose I'm being results oriented, since if the running spades didn't come I'd be congratulating myself about my brilliant job of letting the donk bet it for me the whole way. Oh well.

[Sarge85]

I really can't figure out why no raise on the flop. And saying waiting for a "safe card" is not a good reason. That situation does not apply here.

I don't like a slowplay in raised pots either. Again- raised pots is not a place to slow play.

I think you vilolated either one of the two rules above - and it cost you a pot.

In short - Raise the Flop, becuase when it get's to you it only has the potential to be three handed and you are not "pumping" the pot for a potential flush draw (which occurs when you have a similar hand, but several people in front of you have already called. You raise here to represent your hand and make MP2 call two bets.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[GMMigge]

If we knew for a fact that SB had the only remaining king, than it would be okay with a call, since it's very likely that we will be bet into on the turn and then we can raise.

But since he really could donk this flop with a lot of hands, there's no guarantee that we will be bet into on the turn, and with only one player behind us we lose too much by just calling. Neither a flush draw or a weaker king is folding, so we could might as well raise and collect some extra bets, and hope to get 3-bet by that weaker king.

Only if we had a read, like if we knew that SB was really weak and capable of bet/folding flops or check/folding turns - but loves to bet himself - perhaps then we could call. Highly unlikely though.

[chief444]

Yeah, slowplaying at 2/4 generally is "semi-retarded" as you put it for obvious reasons. When people need only to be dealt two cards to find a reason to call I like to bet and raise good hands.