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#1
08-01-2006, 05:44 PM
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What buy in do heads up players start to get good?
This is a serious question because I'm starting to think people are nuts. I spent some time playing $5 heads up and after I gained $200 I decided to move up to $10 games. I quickly noticed that the $10 players are just as bad as the $5 ones. So I decide to then bounce back and forth between $10 and $20 heads up matches depending on my mood and the $20 are just as pathetic as the $5 players. Nothing at all has changed, $20 players are still either too tight or bet like a monkey on Meth.
Even though I was underrolled I decided to try a $50 heads up. My first opponent was easier than anybody I played at the $5 level! Everytime I checked, he bet. Everytime I bet, he folded. Needless to say I was able to get him to do exactly what I wanted all the time. After winning that I was like, "The $50 players can't all be this bad" so I entered another $50 game. The very first hand I had JJ in the BB, out of nowhere the guy goes all in. Again I'm left scratching my head. When blinds are 5/10 how does a $50 player go all in for 1000 out of nowhere? I ended up losing that race but that doesn't matter, what matters is the large number of heads up players who are out of their minds! When do heads up players start to get good? I was always told that the high buy ins have harder players but I'm starting to think it's BS. Hell I have a friend who plays $200-$500 heads up constantly and when I watch his games I still see people calling all ins on flush draws (without the odds) or raising crazy amounts like 20x the BB preflop. My guess is anybody who tells you that you need to stick to low buy ins is full of s*** because it seems to me that even as you go higher the players still blow. Can anybody prove me wrong? 
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#4
08-01-2006, 07:09 PM
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Re: What buy in do heads up players start to get good?
[ QUOTE ]
This is a serious question because I'm starting to think people are nuts. I spent some time playing $5 heads up and after I gained $200 I decided to move up to $10 games. I quickly noticed that the $10 players are just as bad as the $5 ones. So I decide to then bounce back and forth between $10 and $20 heads up matches depending on my mood and the $20 are just as pathetic as the $5 players. Nothing at all has changed, $20 players are still either too tight or bet like a monkey on Meth. Even though I was underrolled I decided to try a $50 heads up. My first opponent was easier than anybody I played at the $5 level! Everytime I checked, he bet. Everytime I bet, he folded. Needless to say I was able to get him to do exactly what I wanted all the time. After winning that I was like, "The $50 players can't all be this bad" so I entered another $50 game. The very first hand I had JJ in the BB, out of nowhere the guy goes all in. Again I'm left scratching my head. When blinds are 5/10 how does a $50 player go all in for 1000 out of nowhere? I ended up losing that race but that doesn't matter, what matters is the large number of heads up players who are out of their minds! When do heads up players start to get good? I was always told that the high buy ins have harder players but I'm starting to think it's BS. Hell I have a friend who plays $200-$500 heads up constantly and when I watch his games I still see people calling all ins on flush draws (without the odds) or raising crazy amounts like 20x the BB preflop. My guess is anybody who tells you that you need to stick to low buy ins is full of s*** because it seems to me that even as you go higher the players still blow. Can anybody prove me wrong? [/ QUOTE ] I'm primarily a limit guy, but have played a little NL. The bottom line is that HU SnG's (of any type) are a terrible way to make serious money (but are good for building a bankroll when you start off, as you've discovered). HU (and very shorthanded) cash is where the good HU players ply their trade. I've played HU limit SnG's at all the levels on stars and the opposition is almost without exception poor. Play 50/100 HU limit on UB and 50% of your opponents will be stronger than 99.9% of the Stars SnG players. If you think you're a good HU NL player, find a HU cash game and see how you go. green_tea
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#5
08-01-2006, 08:23 PM
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Re: What buy in do heads up players start to get good?
I play on Golden Palae poker and all there heads up matches up to $500 are like the $5 ones. Bunch of aggresive players who will play any 2 cards and try to bust you. Terrible players. If you can deal with variance, these are perfect for you.
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#6
08-01-2006, 08:27 PM
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Re: What buy in do heads up players start to get good?
Can you please explain further?
How can something have a worse hourly rate and be a better bankroll builder? You bring up 50/100 hu limit cash games, but don't specify what stakes you're comparing that to. To the OP: maybe you're not paying enough attention. I'm reluctant to classify the high stakes players as idiots because they probably understand the game deeper than I do, so I don't see what they see. Perhaps you're misreading the situation and perhaps they count their overcards as outs. That is sometimes reason enough to call or raise on a draw in 6max, and probably moreso HU.
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#7
08-02-2006, 08:15 AM
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Re: What buy in do heads up players start to get good?
[ QUOTE ]
Can you please explain further? How can something have a worse hourly rate and be a better bankroll builder? You bring up 50/100 hu limit cash games, but don't specify what stakes you're comparing that to. [/ QUOTE ] I meant it's a good way to build up a bankroll when you start off (and only have a small bankroll to start with). The hourly rate at low buy-ins is tiny, but the risk is also low as the players are so poor. At the higher buyins, where the players are still generally weak, but clueful enough to survive into later levels, the rising blinds make the outcome much more dependent on luck that if you just played HU cash against the same guy (I'm thinking of limit here, the story may be different for NL, in the sense that HU NL cash against a competant but weak opponent may have even more variance than playing him at high buyin SnG's - I have no serious HU NL cash experience.) (The 50/100 comparision wasn't very useful as it's so much higher than all the stars limit SnGs. I was trying to think of a HU limit cash game which has very few regular weak players. 10/20 had loads, 15/30 had far fewer, but neither of these games exists as strictly HU anymore.) green_tea
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