KQo OTB after raise from CO

calidris · #1 08-01-2006, 01:13 PM

A bit scary...my first post here [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP3 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, 1 fold, BB calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (8.40 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, MP3 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, BB calls, CO calls.

Turn: (7.20 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, CO bets, Hero ?

Some of my thoughts:

CO is 23/10/1 over 100 hands
MP3 is a maniac playing anything
BB is 30/7/1 over 100 hands

Both CO and BB knows some poker as far as I with my limited experience can judge (4000 hands logged).

I figure CO wants to play a decent hand against MP3 alone and tries to push the rest of us out. A raise will not make them reconsider so I might as well see the flop with my, probably superior, hand. Therefore i call but I'm a bit concerned that BB joins.

BB has been consistently C/R flop with TPTK and better so his flop bet means to me that he got a piece of the flop but probably not anything better than my KKQ so I raise. That way I might be able to represent a made straight and make the pot odds worse for flush draws.

Turn comes a T and suddenly CO leads out. What should a poor Hero do?

ETA: My play so far has been pretty tight with VP$ 15 and PFR around 6. I usually bet out on the flop if I have anything or not.

TarHeel100 · #2 08-01-2006, 01:28 PM

I fold this hand preflop. You are offsuited and likely to be dominated by the raiser.

Turn: I am calling this bet. CO probably has a pretty strong hand to donk into you after you raised on the flop.

kerowo · #3 08-01-2006, 01:29 PM

At these limits you aren't going to get rid of a flush draw. This is a thin value bet if your read is correct, although I don't see what CO is raising with here that doesn't have at least as good a draw as you do.

Oh, pre-flop this is a fold without a better read than you have on the players. If you do think CO is raising light to isolate the maniac 3-bet this.

Langerz · #4 08-01-2006, 01:33 PM

Welcome to the board and very nice post. Good reads etc.

Preflop - I normally don't call this, but if you have a specific read the CO will ISO with something weaker that's fine. It sounds like you did.

Flop - If BB is consistenly c/r with TPTK and leads out into 4 people my first thought would be a draw betting for value (although his stats don't look like someone that understands value betting) especially with a draw heavy board. You can't really protect your hand in your position here (you really aren't making the pot odds worse for flush draws - they aren't folding unless its a bdfd and then you only care about the A), but you are ahead a lot and have value to draw when you aren't so I like the raise.

I raise the turn. The check from the BB looks even more like a draw. Hopefully the raise gets this HU. Raising on the river may also get CO to check and allow you to check behind (which you may or may not do depending on the river card).

Eeegah · #5 08-01-2006, 01:38 PM

I'm pretty sure you have the best hand here, CO would have checkraised the turn otherwise. I think he's just looking for a free showdown. He likely doesn't have the flush as he would have 3-bet behind on the flop. Whatever you do don't fold.

I wouldn't be too surprised to see KQ here.

dpbuck · #6 08-01-2006, 02:08 PM

PF raise or fold - Not a fan of CC with an easily dominated hand.
Call down unless you get a K or 9 - be wary of an Ace. This smells like CO has AT to me...

A_K · #7 08-01-2006, 02:31 PM

Grunch

I think that if the T helped CO he would probably have gone for a checkraise, so there is a good chance that you have the best hand. Raise and see if you can get it HU.

For some reason (probably just random variance/luck) I've seen this donk-bluff when the turn pairs the board a lot lately.

Ricks · #8 08-01-2006, 03:04 PM

Eeegah,

No one can have a flush on the turn. How can CO expect to get a free showdown by betting OOP, to the flop raiser, on the turn?

Eeegah · #9 08-01-2006, 03:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Eeegah,

No one can have a flush on the turn. How can CO expect to get a free showdown by betting OOP, to the flop raiser, on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

We go "whuh, huh?" and check behind, then smell a checkraise when the river bricks or is a spade and check behind. It's more of a reduced-price showdown than free, but for some reason it's called a free showdown.

Bodizapha · #10 08-01-2006, 03:32 PM

I'm not a big fan of the preflop call here. Your reads should have led you to fold this hand. However, suited might have been a different story.