Betting Change Outcome of Slots?

[SheetWise]

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Although betting maximum coins on slots and video poker increases your EV on a percentage basis, it usually reduces EV in absolute dollars (except for VP machine4s that are +EV with maximum coin and perfect play. The best waqy to play slots or VP is to play nickels, very slowly, one coin at a time and try to drink enough to make it +EV.

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Your advice is correct. Playing a -5% game, and believing that a +4% bonus for playing X x wager is an illusion.

File this under fundamentals.

[B.C.]

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Whilst this is the only way to win the MAX Jackpot amount, it will not effect the actual win rate or return to player.

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Of course it will -- what it won't change is the win frequency.

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I love it when some pompous know it all is 100% wrong. I operate 500 slots, please feel free to apply your winnning theories in my venue by betting the max on every spin to increase your win ratio and the % return.

I will even make you a VIP (as casinos do to high end players). Do you think they comp and grovel to the big players because they win more by playing more credits?

[SheetWise]

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Whilst this is the only way to win the MAX Jackpot amount, it will not effect the actual win rate or return to player.

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Of course it will -- what it won't change is the win frequency.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love it when some pompous know it all is 100% wrong. I operate 500 slots, please feel free to apply your winnning theories in my venue by betting the max on every spin to increase your win ratio and the % return.

I will even make you a VIP (as casinos do to high end players). Do you think they comp and grovel to the big players because they win more by playing more credits?

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If anyone reading is interested in the level of intelligence required to run 500 slots, B.C.'s an illustration.

As CORed observed -- you can improve the percentage return, but you have to increase the handle to do it. Increasing the size of your wager to improve the percentage return doesn't improve your EV unless the marginal wager has a positive expectation. The only time a last coin could improve your EV is on a buy pay machine or a multiplier with a progressive jackpot.

The OP and responses are not exploring "winning theories."

Thanks for the generous VIP offer -- I'm sure they don't give those to just anybody. Aren't you going to ask if I want fries with that?

[B.C.]

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Whilst this is the only way to win the MAX Jackpot amount, it will not effect the actual win rate or return to player.

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course it will -- what it won't change is the win frequency.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love it when some pompous know it all is 100% wrong. I operate 500 slots, please feel free to apply your winnning theories in my venue by betting the max on every spin to increase your win ratio and the % return.

I will even make you a VIP (as casinos do to high end players). Do you think they comp and grovel to the big players because they win more by playing more credits?

[/ QUOTE ]

If anyone reading is interested in the level of intelligence required to run 500 slots, B.C.'s an illustration.

As CORed observed -- you can improve the percentage return, but you have to increase the handle to do it. Increasing the size of your wager to improve the percentage return doesn't improve your EV unless the marginal wager has a positive expectation. The only time a last coin could improve your EV is on a buy pay machine or a multiplier with a progressive jackpot.

The OP and responses are not exploring "winning theories."

Thanks for the generous VIP offer -- I'm sure they don't give those to just anybody. Aren't you going to ask if I want fries with that?

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So wrong its laughable. Yes we morons who operate slots know not what we are doing.

There is absolutely no way you can increase the % return by betting more. You have as much chance of getting more money back by doing this as you would by rubbing the machine, changing the number of lines played, or sticking a rabbits foot on your head. You sound like one of those people who spend money buying “beat the slots” books. Cant be done.

Again I will reiterate: nothing you can do can change the predetermined % Return to Player. Nothing.


Please continue to espouse your mind numbingly brilliant theories on winning more by playing max bet and people like Steve Wynn (obviously a stupid slot operator) will continue to build billion dollar casinos in the hope that slot theorists like you will continue to play at maximum levels.

My VIP offer still stands.

[SheetWise]

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So wrong its laughable. Yes we morons who operate slots know not what we are doing.

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I'm sure you know what you're doing. You're doing what those of us who design them expect you to do.

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There is absolutely no way you can increase the % return by betting more.

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Yes you can.

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You have as much chance of getting more money back by doing this as you would by rubbing the machine, changing the number of lines played, or sticking a rabbits foot on your head.

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I don't believe option one or three would work. Although, if you chose them over option two, they might save you money.

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Again I will reiterate: nothing you can do can change the predetermined % Return to Player. Nothing.

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That's not a reiteration. You've never made the statement before. I don't expect anyone here would take exception to it. The issue you seem to have a problem understanding is that the predetermined % return to player is not always a constant on the "last coin."

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Please continue to espouse your mind numbingly brilliant theories on winning more by playing max bet and people like Steve Wynn (obviously a stupid slot operator) will continue to build billion dollar casinos in the hope that slot theorists like you will continue to play at maximum levels.

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I happen to know you're not Steve. And I know he's not a stupid slot operator -- that leaves you.

[B.C.]

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So wrong its laughable. Yes we morons who operate slots know not what we are doing.

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I'm sure you know what you're doing. You're doing what those of us who design them expect you to do.

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There is absolutely no way you can increase the % return by betting more.

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Yes you can.

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You have as much chance of getting more money back by doing this as you would by rubbing the machine, changing the number of lines played, or sticking a rabbits foot on your head.

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I don't believe option one or three would work. Although, if you chose them over option two, they might save you money.

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Again I will reiterate: nothing you can do can change the predetermined % Return to Player. Nothing.

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That's not a reiteration. You've never made the statement before. I don't expect anyone here would take exception to it. The issue you seem to have a problem understanding is that the predetermined % return to player is not always a constant on the "last coin."

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Please continue to espouse your mind numbingly brilliant theories on winning more by playing max bet and people like Steve Wynn (obviously a stupid slot operator) will continue to build billion dollar casinos in the hope that slot theorists like you will continue to play at maximum levels.

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I happen to know you're not Steve. And I know he's not a stupid slot operator -- that leaves you.

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Yep it leaves me. Collecting enormous amounts of money from people like you who believe that they can win more by betting more. Try myth 3 in the following.........

linky

[playersare]

a) LMAO at anyone who has to quote John Grochowski to prove a point

b) % winning combinations and hit frequency is not the same issue as overall net return on coin-in, this is the concept that you're continuously misunderstanding. if you look at any corporate Slot Par (aka PC) Sheet and Reel Strip Listing, the max coin percentage is almost always higher than the min coin configuration. this is because the assigned payout for the SAME jackpot combination may be proportionally higher (per credit) for more coins bet on any particular spin. any freshman UNLV textbook like "Casino Operations Management" (Kilby, Fox, Lucas) illustrates this quite lucidly.

[SheetWise]

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Try myth 3 in the following (link)...

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I see the problem. Since it appears that you have a mentor, and someone who can communicate on your level -- why are you inserting comments at 2+2?

I have no doubt Mr. Grochowski can also communicate above your level ...

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Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 11:07 PM


Dear Mr. Grochowski;



Your name came up in a post at the 2+2 forums. An article you wrote was linked to this thread by a member who goes by the name B.C. He apparently thinks your article supports a position he has repeated several times here. Quite honestly, I don't see the connection. But -- apparently he respects your opinion. Would you mind weighing in?



Here's the thread.



Thanks,
Gregg


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[B.C.]

Very good. Although I've never heard of him prior to searching google for a link to illustrate a fact (there are about 100 which say the same thing but whatever) maybe he can help you with your misconceptions. I'm not going to try to educate you (it would be wasted).

Please continue to bet max to change your win percentage. Good Luck.

[Kaeser]

B.C.- Just in the effort to reduce the flamewar between you and Sheets perhaps I can clarify. Nobody is saying that you win more often betting max coins. Noone is even saying that you have a winning edge. What their saying is that because of higher Jackpot multipliers from max coin bets your play becomes less -EV then betting the minimum.

Since you work in a casino slot department you must know that most slots will have set payouts for different spins. I.E. 1-1 3-1 5-1 but often the jackpot will pay 1000-1 for 1 coin or 2 coins but say 2500-1 for 3 coins. Since the odds of hitting the jackpot remain the same regardless of how many coins you play then you must concede that the higher payout from max play changes your expected value.

Nobody here has said that betting max with higher jackpot payouts makes the game +EV, just that it makes it slightly (very slightly) less -EV.