New grads - poker or job, and why?

[tagtastic]

Graduated w/ CS degree in 2004. I played half-assed poker for two years around this time, mostly for fun. Did very little else productive. Recently I started taking poker alot more seriously and it's paying off. My two years of experience (ending in a huge burnout) in small stakes NL trying to make it big have taught me alot of lessons. Very happy with poker now, with my new approach and outlook on it. Only thing that scares me a bit is the legislation on it's way to the senate.

I make more per hour in rakeback than anyone I know from college who actually has a real job, and I win far more than I get in rakeback. I recently successfully moved up in limits, just entering mid-stakes no-limit. I forsee more moving up in the future, possibly hitting something like 5/10 NL by the end of the year.

Job prospects have been long forgotten. I realized about a year out of school that I didn't want to be sitting in an office programming. I had a few interviews at some pretty cool companies but I was far from enthused. I enjoyed programming at school, but the prospect of working 9-5 at some random company just doesn't sit well with me. I hope poker remains legal and accessible, this feels like the tip of the iceberg for me.

[FoxwoodsFiend]

I'm playing poker because I had a summer internship once, and the routine of waking up early every day just to be exhausted by night and only having a few hours to relax before having to go to sleep to repeat the same cycle the next day was awful. I feel that most people with jobs don't have the time to actually live real lives: their entire existence is just focused on getting through to the next day and everything becomes so routine/standard that their lives end up being pretty meaningless.

I just don't see how anybody could pass up the freedom that comes with playing poker, let alone the insane amounts of money that one can make so early in life: sure poker has a lower ceiling than investment banking or some other 90 hour a week job, but there's more value to having money when you're young and free to travel/do whatever you want than there is in having more when you're 40 and don't have the time to do anything.

Funny aside, I bet fslexcduck $10K to win $5K that I wouldn't have a job which averages more than 47 hours of work a week in the next 5 years, and I have no question I'm going to win: jobs are what you do when you've gotten sick of poker, which I see taking more than 5 years.

[FoxwoodsFiend]

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I graduated college in 2005, and I've spent the past year splitting my time between research and playing poker professionally. I'm living in las vegas now playing poker for the entire summer, but in september, I'll be getting a full-time job, and poker will become nothing but a hobby and source of a little extra cash.

Basically, while I enjoy poker, I find that it is rarely intellectually challenging, and I'm frequently quite bored with it. The same situations come up time and time again, and even when you are forced to think of something new, it is still just a game, and the thought processes are so limited within the scope of the game. Creativity, relevance, and impact on the world are all lost when poker is your entire world.

Furthermore (and this is not a necessary evil, but it is a realistic one for many of us), poker has made me lazy. I don't take care of myself, I don't accomplish as much in any given day, etc. Basically, I don't like who I've become as a professional poker player.

I think a job should challenge you, inspire you, and create some utility in the world, in addition to being a vehicle to make money. Poker does none of those additional things for me, so that's why I'm leaving it for a real job. For now, it's management consulting, but soon after, law school, and then I have no idea where.

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I'd also like to echo that this is a great post - I'm not sure what I want to do as a 2005 college graduate with a degree in nothing, but poker as a job sucks and while I don't yet hate the game, I don't want to become one of the people who do.

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Everybody who thinks this is a great post:

Besides the fact that it's considered "respectable" and you get to dress up and work in an office setting, what do you think is so "inspiring" about most of the jobs people choose to do? Honestly. Most jobs people take they take because it's their most profitable decision and they would ditch their jobs instantly for a better dental plan and higher pay in some other field. Obviously Vanessa is an exception, but even her field isn't exactly meaningful. Do you guys have any idea what management consultants do? I've talked to people who work in Vanessa's firm and they basically say they give obvious advice to idiotic companies.

This isn't to pick on Vanessa: the point is just that when people say that their jobs are meaningful, I think they're just rationalizing what it is that they're doing so they don't feel too bad about wasting their time corporate whoring themselves. I guess I could get one of the standard "right out of college" jobs. I could be an investment banker making money out of nowhere for rich people, or paralegal stapling papers for corporate lawyers defending large multinational corporations, or I could do relatively mindless consulting. I'm pretty sure that any job you can get right out of college that pays anything close to decent is not at all "interesting" or "inspiring": you want to do something meaningful, do Teach for America or be a social worker. But valuing some 9-5 corporate job over poker because of its "value" is somewhat silly.

Basically, unless you want to go to grad school and actually enter a profession of your choice, most vocations that people take just to kill a few years, put off deciding their future, and make a couple bucks aren't worth a damn.

Also, if you want to do productive things and progress as an individual, you're probably better off playing poker: you can work whenever you want so you can do all sorts of activities you otherwise couldn't. Read an extra book a week, volunteer at a couple law clinics or soup kitchens. Nobody said that playing poker requires vegetating around your apartment all day: if you only have to play 3 hours when you wake up and 3 hours from 11-1:00 a.m. you have a lot of time in between to be "inspired" and progress as an individual.

[ahnuld]

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I will get a job or do grad school. Poker has been my only real source of income for the past 2 years, and for the brief periods of time when its been the only thing going on for me (summer breaks, etc) I've been really dissatisfied. I always seem to fall into a slump when I haven't had classes or anything going on and poker has been my only responsibility. I just don't think I would be happy with life as a professional player

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exactly how i feel

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same, im excited for school to start.

[jackdaniels]

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I graduated college in 2005, and I've spent the past year splitting my time between research and playing poker professionally. I'm living in las vegas now playing poker for the entire summer, but in september, I'll be getting a full-time job, and poker will become nothing but a hobby and source of a little extra cash.

Basically, while I enjoy poker, I find that it is rarely intellectually challenging, and I'm frequently quite bored with it. The same situations come up time and time again, and even when you are forced to think of something new, it is still just a game, and the thought processes are so limited within the scope of the game. Creativity, relevance, and impact on the world are all lost when poker is your entire world.

Furthermore (and this is not a necessary evil, but it is a realistic one for many of us), poker has made me lazy. I don't take care of myself, I don't accomplish as much in any given day, etc. Basically, I don't like who I've become as a professional poker player.

I think a job should challenge you, inspire you, and create some utility in the world, in addition to being a vehicle to make money. Poker does none of those additional things for me, so that's why I'm leaving it for a real job. For now, it's management consulting, but soon after, law school, and then I have no idea where.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd also like to echo that this is a great post - I'm not sure what I want to do as a 2005 college graduate with a degree in nothing, but poker as a job sucks and while I don't yet hate the game, I don't want to become one of the people who do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everybody who thinks this is a great post:

Besides the fact that it's considered "respectable" and you get to dress up and work in an office setting, what do you think is so "inspiring" about most of the jobs people choose to do? Honestly. Most jobs people take they take because it's their most profitable decision and they would ditch their jobs instantly for a better dental plan and higher pay in some other field. Obviously Vanessa is an exception, but even her field isn't exactly meaningful. Do you guys have any idea what management consultants do? I've talked to people who work in Vanessa's firm and they basically say they give obvious advice to idiotic companies.

This isn't to pick on Vanessa: the point is just that when people say that their jobs are meaningful, I think they're just rationalizing what it is that they're doing so they don't feel too bad about wasting their time corporate whoring themselves. I guess I could get one of the standard "right out of college" jobs. I could be an investment banker making money out of nowhere for rich people, or paralegal stapling papers for corporate lawyers defending large multinational corporations, or I could do relatively mindless consulting. I'm pretty sure that any job you can get right out of college that pays anything close to decent is not at all "interesting" or "inspiring": you want to do something meaningful, do Teach for America or be a social worker. But valuing some 9-5 corporate job over poker because of its "value" is somewhat silly.

Basically, unless you want to go to grad school and actually enter a profession of your choice, most vocations that people take just to kill a few years, put off deciding their future, and make a couple bucks aren't worth a damn.

Also, if you want to do productive things and progress as an individual, you're probably better off playing poker: you can work whenever you want so you can do all sorts of activities you otherwise couldn't. Read an extra book a week, volunteer at a couple law clinics or soup kitchens. Nobody said that playing poker requires vegetating around your apartment all day: if you only have to play 3 hours when you wake up and 3 hours from 11-1:00 a.m. you have a lot of time in between to be "inspired" and progress as an individual.

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You DON'T sound like a recent grad. But you are absolutely correct in your assessment and it would be a good idea for anyone reading this thread to review the points you make and commit them to memory.

All one needs to do is ask themselves a single question:

Do you work to live or live to work?

Most of us work to live and spend our personal time pursuing our own interests. Work is what we do during the day to pay the bills at the end of the month. Some of us live to work. These are the real sad cases, the guys who spend 120 hours a week at their job making a bunch of cash they never have any free time to spend (except for that once a year 2 week vacation to Hawaii - woohoo!). Ideally, one would find work in a field they are extremely interested in, where every day on the job offers a new discovery or the possibility for one - unfortunately, this is VERY RARELY the case for most working adults.

Do what you have to do to make a living, then spend your free time having a life.

[FoxwoodsFiend]

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I graduated college in 2005, and I've spent the past year splitting my time between research and playing poker professionally. I'm living in las vegas now playing poker for the entire summer, but in september, I'll be getting a full-time job, and poker will become nothing but a hobby and source of a little extra cash.

Basically, while I enjoy poker, I find that it is rarely intellectually challenging, and I'm frequently quite bored with it. The same situations come up time and time again, and even when you are forced to think of something new, it is still just a game, and the thought processes are so limited within the scope of the game. Creativity, relevance, and impact on the world are all lost when poker is your entire world.

Furthermore (and this is not a necessary evil, but it is a realistic one for many of us), poker has made me lazy. I don't take care of myself, I don't accomplish as much in any given day, etc. Basically, I don't like who I've become as a professional poker player.

I think a job should challenge you, inspire you, and create some utility in the world, in addition to being a vehicle to make money. Poker does none of those additional things for me, so that's why I'm leaving it for a real job. For now, it's management consulting, but soon after, law school, and then I have no idea where.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd also like to echo that this is a great post - I'm not sure what I want to do as a 2005 college graduate with a degree in nothing, but poker as a job sucks and while I don't yet hate the game, I don't want to become one of the people who do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everybody who thinks this is a great post:

Besides the fact that it's considered "respectable" and you get to dress up and work in an office setting, what do you think is so "inspiring" about most of the jobs people choose to do? Honestly. Most jobs people take they take because it's their most profitable decision and they would ditch their jobs instantly for a better dental plan and higher pay in some other field. Obviously Vanessa is an exception, but even her field isn't exactly meaningful. Do you guys have any idea what management consultants do? I've talked to people who work in Vanessa's firm and they basically say they give obvious advice to idiotic companies.

This isn't to pick on Vanessa: the point is just that when people say that their jobs are meaningful, I think they're just rationalizing what it is that they're doing so they don't feel too bad about wasting their time corporate whoring themselves. I guess I could get one of the standard "right out of college" jobs. I could be an investment banker making money out of nowhere for rich people, or paralegal stapling papers for corporate lawyers defending large multinational corporations, or I could do relatively mindless consulting. I'm pretty sure that any job you can get right out of college that pays anything close to decent is not at all "interesting" or "inspiring": you want to do something meaningful, do Teach for America or be a social worker. But valuing some 9-5 corporate job over poker because of its "value" is somewhat silly.

Basically, unless you want to go to grad school and actually enter a profession of your choice, most vocations that people take just to kill a few years, put off deciding their future, and make a couple bucks aren't worth a damn.

Also, if you want to do productive things and progress as an individual, you're probably better off playing poker: you can work whenever you want so you can do all sorts of activities you otherwise couldn't. Read an extra book a week, volunteer at a couple law clinics or soup kitchens. Nobody said that playing poker requires vegetating around your apartment all day: if you only have to play 3 hours when you wake up and 3 hours from 11-1:00 a.m. you have a lot of time in between to be "inspired" and progress as an individual.

[/ QUOTE ]

You DON'T sound like a recent grad. But you are absolutely correct in your assessment and it would be a good idea for anyone reading this thread to review the points you make and commit them to memory.

All one needs to do is ask themselves a single question:

Do you work to live or live to work?

Most of us work to live and spend our personal time pursuing our own interests. Work is what we do during the day to pay the bills at the end of the month. Some of us live to work. These are the real sad cases, the guys who spend 120 hours a week at their job making a bunch of cash they never have any free time to spend (except for that once a year 2 week vacation to Hawaii - woohoo!). Ideally, one would find work in a field they are extremely interested in, where every day on the job offers a new discovery or the possibility for one - unfortunately, this is VERY RARELY the case for most working adults.

Do what you have to do to make a living, then spend your free time having a life.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually did just graduate from undergrad in May. Anyway, I think it's not just the 120-hour-week workers that live to work. I think most people who spend 9 hours per week day working are living to work: in general, there just isn't that much free time and energy left after putting in so much effort into your employment.

[Mike Jett]

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Most of us work to live and spend our personal time pursuing our own interests. Work is what we do during the day to pay the bills at the end of the month. Some of us live to work. These are the real sad cases, the guys who spend 120 hours a week at their job making a bunch of cash they never have any free time to spend (except for that once a year 2 week vacation to Hawaii - woohoo!). Ideally, one would find work in a field they are extremely interested in, where every day on the job offers a new discovery or the possibility for one - unfortunately, this is VERY RARELY the case for most working adults.

Do what you have to do to make a living, then spend your free time having a life.

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Not every person who lives to work is a sad case.

Think about your resident physicians, working 80+ hour weeks for 30k/year, and ask yourself if they're a sad case?

Someone has to have passion for certain fields of practice, and people like this not only dont have much time to spend the money they make, but they really dont make much to begin with.

Also with teachers who dedicate themselves to teaching.

Not every single person who lives to work is a sad case or a corporate whore, is what im saying.

[FoxwoodsFiend]

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Most of us work to live and spend our personal time pursuing our own interests. Work is what we do during the day to pay the bills at the end of the month. Some of us live to work. These are the real sad cases, the guys who spend 120 hours a week at their job making a bunch of cash they never have any free time to spend (except for that once a year 2 week vacation to Hawaii - woohoo!). Ideally, one would find work in a field they are extremely interested in, where every day on the job offers a new discovery or the possibility for one - unfortunately, this is VERY RARELY the case for most working adults.

Do what you have to do to make a living, then spend your free time having a life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not every person who lives to work is a sad case.

Think about your resident physicians, working 80+ hour weeks for 30k/year, and ask yourself if they're a sad case?

Someone has to have passion for certain fields of practice, and people like this not only dont have much time to spend the money they make, but they really dont make much to begin with.

Also with teachers who dedicate themselves to teaching.

Not every single person who lives to work is a sad case or a corporate whore, is what im saying.

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I agree, which is why I specifically said that the actually enriching jobs tend to be lower paying (Teach for America type jobs). My point is if you're about the paper, good luck finding a job that doesn't suck the life out of you.

[kidcolin]

Fiend, others,

The ones who REALLY chase the dollar are the ones that actually like that kind of work. Whether it's business or finance, stock broker, etc. You just can't hate that kind of work but be good enough to make serious dollars. The ones who enter it in hopes of making it big get short-sticked on both sides. They don't love it enough to put in the major hours and their ambition decreases, so they don't make a killing, but they make decent enough bank that they have a hard time going elsewhere and get stuck doing something they loathe.

Also, for a job to be enriching, it doesn't have to be social work or teaching. I'm currently bored at my current job (24 yr old engineer), but there's so much going on in the tech industry that excites me. I find that stuff pretty enriching, too, and I might not make huge 6 figures, but I'll do alright by it.

[spamuell]

There's no way I could play poker full time, whenever I've done that it's been depressing and lonely. A job doesn't sound like a very welcome prospect either, though. At the moment the plan is just to keep getting degrees, if I do that then poker on the side is fine. Of course I don't actually even have one degree yet, so I'll probably get sick of them but we'll have to see.