please rate the douche factor here - Page 5

Eder · #41 07-30-2006, 01:48 PM

I think if the floor had to be called for a ruling here theres something wrong...it was clearly a bet and the dealer should have quickly fixed the pot,read the cards, and pushed it to Bob.
Yes... the guy is an angle shooting douche...if this was the only incident from him he would be 5/10 in my books.

RR · #42 07-30-2006, 01:57 PM

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think if the floor had to be called for a ruling here theres something wrong...it was clearly a bet and the dealer should have quickly fixed the pot,read the cards, and pushed it to Bob.

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No. The moment someone indicates they do not want to make an action that another player wants them to make that is a dispute and the floor should be called. The dealer cannot make decisions when there is disagreement. Also many players are unfamiliar with what does and what does not consitute a bet (I have seen quite a few dealers get it wrong also).

Dozer64 · #43 07-30-2006, 04:29 PM

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i check the turn to induce a river bluff....i insta-fire out my call.

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A. Let the guy finish his bluff. You now know this.
This is just one pot in the many you will see that night.
Don't kill the vibe and call the floor, think long term.

B. Instacall? Next time try a time-release-raise. You won't even have to show & confirm that you are a nut peddler.

Rick Nebiolo · #44 07-30-2006, 05:59 PM

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Give your opponents time to bet and you won't have
to call the floor and slow the game down for everyone.

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I won't assign a "douche factor" number but the above sentence reflects my sentiments exactly.

~ Rick

mrjetguy · #45 07-30-2006, 06:05 PM

Honestly most of these responses are horrible. If some one brings his hand forward and actually lets chips hit the table that is pretty clearly a bet. Explain why someone would ever do that unless A. they are betting B. they are trying to angle shoot ?

Pokerbob wins!

counterspell · #46 07-30-2006, 06:33 PM

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The guy is a douche, he made a bet and tried to 'steal' it back.

Now answer me this, you checked to induce a bluff bet, why did you call and not raise ?

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because he isn't 100% positive that he has the best hand and doesn't want to cut his odds in half?

bav · #47 07-30-2006, 06:52 PM

Had almost the same thing happen to me playing limit at the Wynn. I've been betting but the river is a bad card for me so I check and my opponent counts out 8 chips into two piles in front of him, then moves 4 forward and sets them down. He reaches back and picks up 4 more and I beat him into the pot with a call. He looks at me and in this great authentic Teddy KGB sortof accent (I think he said he was Armenian) says "ahahah! Nono! I hadn't finished betting yet--you were too fast. I fold" and throws his cards in and takes back the original 4 chips he'd put in. My mouth drops and the dealer says "uhhhh...sir, you can't do that". He insists he's folding, not calling and the floor gets called. Floor just asks "did he cut out 8 chips and move forward with any of them?" "yes" "Then it's a bet--put it in".

I believe firmly that "forward motion which induces a player behind to act is binding". I particular despise the old codgers who always hold a stack of 16 chips in their hand, and while carefully watching the players behind them reach far into the pot and just sit there... then decide based on the reactions whether they're gonna just rap the table and check, or put out a bet. Betting lines are good for stopping that stupidity, though overall I hate betting lines myself.

If players don't want their forward motion with chips in hand to be taken as a bet, they shouldn't move forward with chips in hand. PBob ran into an angle shooter and got a reasonable ruling outta the floor. Yay PBob.

The only thing particularly douchy about PB's post is the way he phrased it. But hey...it's just his persona. Let PokerBob be PokerBob.

RR · #48 07-30-2006, 07:00 PM

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I believe firmly that "forward motion which induces a player behind to act is binding".

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This is exactly correct. The question is if someone is playing with some chips and comes forward is it an angle to fire your chips in so that he can't bring them back. It is clearly a bet if a player comes forward and causes action. I don't believe that is what happened in this case, I think the OP got chisp in as quickly as possible so he could claim the forward motion. I would rule the same way the florr did in this case, but if this is somethign I am getting called to rule on repeatedly (over weeks or whatever) at some point I am going to tell the player that he needs to jsut wait until players are done with their action.

psandman · #49 07-30-2006, 07:11 PM

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Honestly most of these responses are horrible. If some one brings his hand forward and actually lets chips hit the table that is pretty clearly a bet. Explain why someone would ever do that unless A. they are betting B. they are trying to angle shoot ?

Pokerbob wins!

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me ask you a related question.

Suppose in a $10/$20 game on the rive rthe player comes forward with 4 $5 chips in his hand cuts out one chip to the felt while his hand is still out there he annouces "RAISE" drops the remaining chips and the reacheses back to get 4 more chips.

Is this allowed? In any place I have played this is a leagl raise. But your anaylsys suggets that cutting a single chip out on the felt constitutes a bet. And if in fact once a single chip is cut on the felt it is a bet, then shouldn't the subsequent announcement ofaise" be called a string bet? "R

PokerBob · #50 07-30-2006, 07:49 PM

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To check. If the same action occurring without the inervening call it would be ruled a check. Nothing really bad happened because players that bring chips forward and then check are opening themselves to this angle. It is always best to wait until a player complete their action, unless you want to catch them with chips forward. You have violated no rule here, if this had been your first trip to a casino I would even say it might not have been an anlge on your part. It is pretty clear you fired the money in to make sure the player would be required to bet.

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it was very clear he intended to bet, and didnt put up much of a fight when the floor came. i find it hard to believe that you are trying to turn this around on me, as had you seen what occurred i'm sure you'd feel differently. perhaps you are just trolling here, or maybe this "trap" angle-shoot is common where you play. i don't know. besides, i am not clever enough to think of "trapping" someone into a bet. and am brutally honest (apparently to a fault), at the poker table.