I'm the Chipleader w/ 7,7 vs. the 2nd Biggest Stack, Pre-flop

[Messy Harry]

I'm the chipleader at my table, and in the top 5 overall, with about 40 players left - - only the top 10 pay, so we're not close to the bubble yet.

I've got 10,500 and the second biggest stack at my table has 8500 ("Mr. 8500"). I don't have a read on this player yet because he recently moved to our table, but I know by reputation he is a strong player and has past success.

The blinds are 150/300 and I'm in the small blind for 150. Mr. 8500 is in the cutoff. The action folds around to Mr. 8500 and he makes a raise to 900. The button folds and the only other player is the BB who is semi-short stacked at 1800. The action is on me.

Do you fold, call or raise? ...and why?

[Messy Harry]

*Bump*

Can someone please help a brotha' out? I posted this hand because I really questioned the way I played it and have re-thought it since then, but I wanted to get some objective opinions to compare to my current thinking about it.

I would appreciate any opinions. Thanks.

[mmmmmbeeeer]

i would reraise to 3000, you're ahead of the vast majority of his open-raising hands.

if he pushes then fold, b/c even though you'd be getting about 2:1 his range at that point is heavily weighted toward the higher pairs (unless, that is, he has a read on you as a frequent restealer). i doubt he 4-bets all in w/ any unpaired high hands other than ak.

[rockin]

[ QUOTE ]
i would reraise to 3000, you're ahead of the vast majority of his open-raising hands.

if he pushes then fold, b/c even though you'd be getting about 2:1 his range at that point is heavily weighted toward the higher pairs (unless, that is, he has a read on you as a frequent restealer). i doubt he 4-bets all in w/ any unpaired high hands other than ak.

[/ QUOTE ]

This raise and then fold to a reraise sounds awful. If your going to fold to a reraise, then raising is not a very good plan. This seems to be the "see where I'm at" syndrome. Not good.

[Messy Harry]

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[ QUOTE ]
i would reraise to 3000, you're ahead of the vast majority of his open-raising hands.

if he pushes then fold, b/c even though you'd be getting about 2:1 his range at that point is heavily weighted toward the higher pairs (unless, that is, he has a read on you as a frequent restealer). i doubt he 4-bets all in w/ any unpaired high hands other than ak.

[/ QUOTE ]

This raise and then fold to a reraise sounds awful. If your going to fold to a reraise, then raising is not a very good plan. This seems to be the "see where I'm at" syndrome. Not good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rockin, what would you do then?

[mmmmmbeeeer]

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[ QUOTE ]
i would reraise to 3000, you're ahead of the vast majority of his open-raising hands.

if he pushes then fold, b/c even though you'd be getting about 2:1 his range at that point is heavily weighted toward the higher pairs (unless, that is, he has a read on you as a frequent restealer). i doubt he 4-bets all in w/ any unpaired high hands other than ak.

[/ QUOTE ]

This raise and then fold to a reraise sounds awful. If your going to fold to a reraise, then raising is not a very good plan. This seems to be the "see where I'm at" syndrome. Not good.

[/ QUOTE ]

folding is out of the question. you are definitely ahead of his opening range, and you are out of position against a presumably good player w/ a hand that is going to be difficult to play postflop. thus, i think raising in an attempt to take the pot down preflop is better than flat calling. however, if he 4-bets all in his range is minimized vastly assuming that hero is relatively unknown to villain (which almost completely negates the possibility that the villain is re-restealing w/ anything less than premium holdings). thus we can fold.

[xdeucesx]

You call, and see a flop.

[xdeucesx]

Reraising is bad...say you reraise and he calls. Flop comes K T x. You are now playing a huge pot out of position having no idea where you stand. IMO you are much better off calling and seeing a flop, and re-evaluating the situation after that.

[rockin]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i would reraise to 3000, you're ahead of the vast majority of his open-raising hands.

if he pushes then fold, b/c even though you'd be getting about 2:1 his range at that point is heavily weighted toward the higher pairs (unless, that is, he has a read on you as a frequent restealer). i doubt he 4-bets all in w/ any unpaired high hands other than ak.

[/ QUOTE ]

This raise and then fold to a reraise sounds awful. If your going to fold to a reraise, then raising is not a very good plan. This seems to be the "see where I'm at" syndrome. Not good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rockin, what would you do then?

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I like the reraise, but finding a fold to a REraise getting 2:1 odds (trusting other poster's math here, since I didn't check) is pretty bad even if you put the button on a tight range of 99+, AQ+. You will still be getting enough odds to call the reraise shove. Button's initial range is VERY wide, his reraise/shove range obviously narrows his range down quite a bit, but the odds demand a call anyway. Using the reraise/shove range (could be looser than this obviously) listed above you get:

698,620,032 games 1.458 secs 479,163,259 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 64.4496 % 64.25% 00.20% { 99+, AQs+, AQo+ }
Hand 2: 35.5504 % 35.35% 00.20% { 77 }


This is 1.8:1 odds and you will be getting better than 2:1 on a shove, easy call (again didn't check other posters 2:1 math).

[jason75]

Reraising makes this a very big pot on the flop if he calls. If I did reraise, I'd probably want to put in enough to make a call of any push easy. So if I reraised, I'd jack it up to 4500 and be ready to call any push.

But that seems far too aggressive to play against the other big stack at the table OOP.

I'd just call and take a flop . . .