JJ from early position 1 OC on flop

Qygoth · #1 07-26-2006, 10:41 PM

Here's a hand that I think I played poorly. This is what I think I should have done, and wanted to know if that would have been the correct thing to do. Would you recommend raising the flop, calling a 3-bet if it came and then re-evaluate on the turn.

SB is 20/13/1.86 over 60 hands.
MP1 is 11/5/1 over 45 hands.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero ???

If 3-bet on the flop fold to a bet on the turn or check it UI?

CrMenace · #2 07-26-2006, 10:53 PM

*grunch*

Raise. You want to protect your hand from MP2. SB may have a straight draw. If he 3-bets, that indicates to me he has Q's or better. I would fold the turn UI.

hizo · #3 07-26-2006, 11:13 PM

At first thought I raise the flop as villain could have a lot of hands here that don't include a Q. if MP2 calls my raise I fold to a 3-bet. if he doesn't i call and reevaluate the turn (and hit my J the way things have been going [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]).

however, there was also some discussion way back about a similar hand except it was KK and an A fell. that thread (found in the Shillx compilation I think) advocated calling the flop bet coming from your right and reevaluating turn... usually raising turn and checking behind on river (however that other hand was HU). I'd like that line here as well actually. I'm interested in seeing what more experienced posters think and why.

Edit: here is the KK/A thread: Shillx advice

sean c · #4 07-27-2006, 09:42 AM

Oygoth i raise the flop for sure. If the sb 3-bets i would call and fold the turn UI. With the backdoor straight draw you have just enough to call if 3-bet on the flop.

Hielko · #5 07-27-2006, 09:53 AM

I raise the flop here. You need to protect you hand.

madscratch · #6 07-27-2006, 10:00 AM

I agree with the raise on the flop and folding the turn UI, but what if it's checked through on the turn and a blank comes on the river. Do we call a river bet from SB? 5.5BB in the pot at that point. Are our jacks good often enough to call? I'm not saying I'm right, but I'm making a crying call at this point.

Hielko · #7 07-27-2006, 10:01 AM

If you raise the flop, you are going to bet the turn and take a freeshowndown on the river. Not betting the turn is a bad plan.

madscratch · #8 07-27-2006, 10:13 AM

It's the gray area weak Q from SB that worries me. I can easily see SB betting the flop, just calling our raise, C/C the turn and then hitting the free showdown at the river. But I suppose we need to give him a reason to fold his better hand and we're not paying any more to take the initiative on the turn.

hammerva · #9 07-27-2006, 03:12 PM

I would also raise on the flop but if he calls then I have to believe that I am dead and then I just check/call unless something good happens. someone mentioned that if you raise on the flop you must bet on the turn. But if he calls a raise, what makes you think he doesn't have a Q or better? Does it have anything to do with these "SB is 20/13/1.86 and MP1 is 11/5/1" numbers and if so why? Sometimes protected a hand isn't worth it.

Bodizapha · #10 07-27-2006, 04:04 PM

I certainly like the 3-bet on the flop. If he raises you, you're in trouble and should fold. I'd say fold on turn to a bet.