Makonnen's Muck Ups (Low Limit O8) #1

[Makonnen]

So, here we go. Every few days, I plan on posting the hand or two that I lost the most money at. Hopefully, this will help me figure out what I'm doing wrong, and, even more optimistically, may be useful for other newbies.

Here's the first, which is from my first few sessions. It's an odd one to start with, but there ya go. MP1 here is a maniac, at this point seeing 75% of flops and raising preflop with about 35% of his hands, and showing down things like top pair, no low in multiway pots.

Party Poker | Limit Omaha Ring game | Limit: $0.50/$1
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Makonnen is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 raises</font>, 2 folds, CO calls, Makonnen calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

<font color="purple">OK, it's a loose call. But, I figure the folks behind me will call, and MP1's raise is meaningless, and I'm getting about 3:1 with a chance to hit the flop hard.</font>

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (10SB, 6 players)
Makonnen checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 bets</font>, CO calls, Makonnen calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

<font color="purple">Reading this, I should have folded here. Backdoor flush draw and draw to 2nd nut low not enough.</font>

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7.5BB, 6 players)
Makonnen checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 bets</font>, CO calls, Makonnen calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.
River: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (11.5BB, 5 players)
Makonnen checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 bets</font>, CO folds, Makonnen calls.

OK, the turn and river are pretty bad, and I should have been out of the hand for 1 BB, not calling on the river for 3.5. Actually, the mistake is the turn: at the river, I'm getting 11.5:1 from a maniac who could have anything, and probably need to call it. It's on the turn, when it's 9.5:1 that I should fold. I have to figure I am up against a better low, and only have 2 outs to the high. That would mean that I am drawing to 4 outs for the scoop and 2 for the high, and that's not enough to continue ...

I'll give a no-prize to anyone who can guess what MP1 had, though.

The only interesting question is whether MP1's play is enough to keep you in this kind of hand and, if not, how much better do you need to have to stay in against a player like that?

-Makonnen

[neverforgetlol]

that's not a loose call preflop in any manner.

[Scott Y.]

Preflop is an insta-call, flop is a routine fold. The paired board makes backdoor draws very sketchy (the flush could be 2nd best, but youre also worried about facing action behind you or on a later street while youre chasing dreams).

[niss]

I can't fold that flop fast enough.

[morphball]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop is an insta-call

[/ QUOTE ]

"Insta-call" is, I think, going a little far. Hero is in bad position and facing a raise and a cold-call. While I think a call is justified here, I think Hero needs to pause and think (if only for a second) about what he plans to do.

Will he be alright with a re-raise?

What will he need to see on the flop to continue, or what would he need to see to lead out with betting or to call a LP raise?

I think not thinking about things like this is beginner's most common O8 leak, and without a plan, they often find themselves calling down second or third or best hands...

So, maybe you meant all this, but I think using the word "inta-call" is not correct. "Thoughtful" call is much better, because after a thoughtful call, folding on that flop is certainly an easy routine.

[zizazziza]

PF = good
rest = very very very very very very bad

[Pnigro]

Flop = FOLD.

You're chasing second nut low, half pot at max. Backdoor flush is meaningless because the board is paired.

[graarrg]

Just tossing in my vote to add to the consensus of posters. PF = OK, flop = bad.

[Scott Y.]

[ QUOTE ]

I think using the word "inta-call" is not correct. "Thoughtful" call is much better

[/ QUOTE ]

This made me laugh.

Anyway, 3 broadway w/ suited ace and A3 is a pretty sick hit/miss hand. Obvious multiway pot. Decent relative position. Hits hard on high boards ppl autobet/peel on. No-brainer to me. Folding would be fairly insane I hope.

Otherwise I know what you're saying, and even if it's a little paranoid it doesn't change the specifics of a low paired board 6-handed. That's the real reason you bail at 12:1. At 5+ handed you don't have to worry much about getting pushed around, as you might otherwise.

[1MoreFish4U]

It's not often a hand is posted that everyone can agree is played properly preflop &amp; horribly postflop - this one is a classic for new players to see why you do the things you're supposed to do.

I agree: call pf - run away full speed after flop.