Cooking Question - Pot Roast Meat?

[katyseagull]

Please please teach me how to make a pot roast! I'm getting a reputation as an awful cook.

I've concluded that there are 4 issues - cut of meat, temperature, cooking time, and cooking pan. Lately I've been using a sort of heavy brownie pan but I've also tried a crockpot too and the meat is still dry and tough either way so basically I'm a loser.

My problem: my pot roast is dry and rather tasteless, but mostly just dry. I was using some kind of tip roast I think but now I'm not even sure to be honest. Anyway, I have no clue what cut of meat is best but I know that I want one with more fat on it.


[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] What is the absolute best, sure-fire cut of meat for an ultra tender pot roast?
[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] How long do I cook this thing so that it is super tender and flavorful? Can you under-cook a pot roast and end up with it being tough?
[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Do I cover it with foil and should there be a lot of broth in the bottom of the pan?
[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Do I brown it on the stove top first?
[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] What temperature is best? (I read on the internet that meat should not be cooked at less than 325)


Here are some of the cuts I've heard of: chuck brisket, top round, bottom round, rump roast, arm roast, blade roast, shoulder roast, top blade, under blade, tip roast and eye round roast. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] ? Which one of these is just really fatty and will give me a tasty juicy roast? I'm sick of lean meats.


(If this has been done already I apologize and if you could link me that would be cool.)

Any help at all is greatly appreciated.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

Katy,
I often go to epicurious.com for cooking hints. They have recipes of all kinds - advanced, simple, classic, etc - and typically lots of honest reviews. Here is a classic pot roast recipe I found, which answers many of your questions.

1/4 cup flour
1 teaspoon salt
1/4 teaspoon pepper
5 pound rump of beef
2 or 3 tablespoons fat or oil
2 onions, sliced, or 10-12 small white onions, peeled
1 or 2 carrots, scraped and cubed
Herbs and other seasonings as desired
1 cup liquid (wine, bouillon, tomatoes, vegetable broth, etc.)
Other vegetables as desired

Season the flour with the salt and pepper and pound the mixture into the meat with the edge of a plate. Brown meat on all sides in the hot fat or oil. Add the onions, cover and cook over low heat 10 minutes. Add the carrots, herbs, seasonings and liquid. Cover tightly and simmer 3 1/2 - 5 hours, until meat is fork tender. Add desired vegetables during the last 20 or 30 minutes.

Pot Roast Variations

1. For part of the liquid, use a 10-ounce can (1 1/3 cups) of puréed tomatoes. For seasoning, add 1 tablespoon minced parsley or dill. When the meat has been removed from the pan, add 1 cup sour cream to the sauce.

2. For the liquid, use 3/4 cup dry white wine, 2 tablespoons brandy or rum, and 1 tablespoon chili sauce. For seasoning, add 4-6 coriander seeds and 12 peppercorns.

3. For the liquid, use 1/2 cup syrup from canned fruit, 2 tablespoons vinegar, 1/2 cup water, 1 beef bouillon cube. For seasoning, add a pinch of powdered fennel and a teaspoon of minced dill.

4. For the liquid, use half dry vermouth, half chicken bouillon.

Makes 6-8 Servings, with some meat left over.

WRT to the your pot/pan - I am a huge believer in Le Creuset. they make cast iron cookware that will literally last your lifetime. it is expensive, but if you are serious about cooking - particularly rich dishes like pot roast - you will love it.

get somebody to give it to you as a gift [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] or wait till they go on sale at amazon

[slamdunkpro]

[ QUOTE ]
What is the absolute best, sure-fire cut of meat for an ultra tender pot roast?

[/ QUOTE ]
You want a cut with a good amount of connective tissue not just fat. Chuck roasts, Bottom Round, Blades
[ QUOTE ]
How long do I cook this thing so that it is super tender and flavorful? Can you under-cook a pot roast and end up with it being tough?

[/ QUOTE ]
A little physiology is in order here. There are basically three things in “meat”. Muscle tissue, fat and connective tissue or collagen. Collagen breaks down under heat to form gelatin and gelatin is what gives you that lip smacking savory mouth feel in braised dishes. This process takes time. You can throw two identical cuts of meat into two different ovens and get completely different results. The first example we’ll throw a chuck roast in at 350 for an hour and a half and in the second we’ll do the same at 200 for 5 hours. At the end both roasts have an internal temperature of 180 degrees. The first is tough as leather and dry; the second moist and tender. Why? Collagen begins to gelatinize at around 140 degrees, but it’s not an instantaneous process. Think of it as melting ice with a hair dryer. The first roast in the example was cooked too fast and the collagen didn’t have a chance to dissolve; result – tough meat. Additionally if you cook at too high a temperature for too long you’ll cook all the gelatin and fat out of the meat; resulting in dry tasteless meat.

[ QUOTE ]
Do I cover it with foil and should there be a lot of broth in the bottom of the pan?

[/ QUOTE ] Yes the roast should be covered and there should be some liquid, but the roast doesn’t need to be swimming in it, it’s a roast not a stew.
[ QUOTE ]
Do I brown it on the stove top first?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes Yes Yes! Browning creates flavor.
[ QUOTE ]
What temperature is best? (I read on the internet that meat should not be cooked at less than 325)

[/ QUOTE ]
Low and slow, 200-225. Be aware that most crock pots sold today cook much higher than this. The oven is the place to do this.

This recipe may help.
Alton Brown's Pot Roast

[NhlNut]

katy,
the choice of meat is very important. I generally use rump or bottom round. (top round is usually too lean) alton brown recommends a blade roast (often called 7 bone roast). It has a little to much connective tissue for my taste.

you want to brown that sucker for all it's worth. this will develop flavor. no flour needed.
when brown, remove from the pan, and sweat some onions. when done deglaze with liquid (i've used wine, beef stock, wine vinegar, even cheap balsamic)
add a scant half inch of beef stock as braising liquid.
then carrot, celery, garlic, tomato, and aromatics. (bay leaf, thyme, peppercorns, parsley stem) I've added a couple juniper berries to good effect.
add meat back, and bring to a very light simmer. the liquid should be barely moving. the roast should be touching the liquid, but not submerged. it will give off some liquid as it cooks. the more liquid, the less intense the flavor of the final broth.
simmer until fork tender.
one way to make your sauce, remove the aromatics, and mash up all the tender vegetables. a stick blender works great.

good luck. trip report requested.

[posnera]

Dry pot roast probably means you are overcooking it. Strangely enough, you can dry out meat while cooking in liquid!

One thing I picked up from the Alton Brown episode was the idea of searing first, then cooking some onions, adding liquid to deglaze (but not too much) and then wrapping the meat tightly in aluminum foil with the onions and some liquid. The put the whole package into the oven. It is much easaier to control temperature and keep it low with an oven rather than a pan on the stove simmering.

[katyseagull]

You guys are very cool! Thank you so much for all your suggestions. I loved the different ideas for seasoning the roast and want to try some of these variations.

Slamdunk: the example you gave of the chuck roast at 350 degrees for 1.5 hours is pretty much what I was doing. I can attest to the fact it does come out dry and tasteless. Clearly I was screwing everything up. Now that you've enlightened me to the properties of meat and collagen I feel like I can get my act together.


I will try again this coming week and post a trip report.

My plan: I'm going to try a rump or blade roast this time, sear well on both sides first, then cook covered in the oven at 200 degrees (that sounds really low) for about 3.5-4 hours.

God I hope this works.

[JJNJustin]

Rump roast is very dry and extremely lean. It is almost like eating sawdust. I dont care for it. Chuck roast or chuck brisket is better, but very fibrous and marbled with some thick pieces of fat. I would suggest chuck roast.

Buy a bag or two of small baby pearl onions (christopher michael brand is good) and a small bag of baby carrots. Buy some fresh whole button mushrooms or baby portabella, some celery, some large carrots, a vidalia onion, and some small redskin potatoes. Buy a small bunch of fresh rosemary and another one of thyme, a few fresh or dried bay leafs, a carton of beef broth, a can of chopped tomatoes, and a bottle of port wine, a bunch of flat leaf parsley, and a bulb of garlic.

Take 1-2 large carrots, 1-2 celery sticks, and the 1 large onions and use a knife to dice them and place together in a bowl. Dice or thinly slice 4-8 garlic cloves and put them in the same bowl. Add half of the thyme (5-10 sprigs)and half of the rosemary to the bowl and set aside.

Take an oven roasting pan and place half of the remaining rosemary and thyme sprigs on the bottom. Put the baby carrots, baby onions (skinned), whole mushrooms, redskin potatoes (halved if too large), and some 1-inch pieces of celery (opt) on the bottom. Place the remaining sprigs of rosemary and thyme over the vegetables.

Make a few deep cuts (1-4) in the pot roast with a knife and insert a few whole cloves of garlic inside of it. Ronco's flavor injector works well for this. You can also put a few whole black peppercorns or whole cloves with the garlic, but only a few (1-2) because this flavor will come out very strong. Season the outside of the potroast with kosher salt and freshly ground pepper. Alton says used cumin seed, and you can if you like cumin.

Get a saute pan or large deep heavy steel pot and heat 1/4 of extra virgin olive oil in the bottom over high heat. Turn your fan on. When the oil is very hot drop your pot roast in and cook for about 3-5 minutes on each major surface or until slightly brown. Adjust heat to keep from burning, but do not worry about cooked bits of stuff on the bottom of the pan. Use tongs to flip the pot roast around. When seared on all sides, take out and place on a plate with paper towels. Turn the heat down to keep the oil from burning.

To the hot oil, add a 1/2-1 tablespoon whole black peppercorns and 1-4 bay leafs let fry for 10-30 seconds, then add the diced onion, celery, carrot, garlic, rosemery and thyme to the oil and cook over medium high heat for 5-10 minutes. When onion is just starting to brown, turn the heat up to high and add 1 cup of port wine. Let come to a boil (3 min) and add 1-2 cups of beef broth. Add can of chopped tomatoes, stir, and ad the diced parsley.

Let come to a boil and simmer, return the meat, and let simmer for 1-2 hours, depending on the size and cut of meat. Take the meat out and place it in the roasting pan on top of the vegetables, and pour the sauce evenly over the entire roasting pan. Cover, and cook in the oven at 375 for 30 minutes-1 hr, or until the vegetables are done but not over mushy.

Take the pan out of the oven and let rest 5-10 minutes before serving.

-J

[esad]

Try this if the regular way isn't working. Makes juicy pot roast everytime! Seriously, it's great!! You can find it in the spices section of your local grocery store.

Pot Roast in a Bag

[kdog]

esad is correct, those bags do work well. Throw in some small potatos and baby carrots(total prep time 3 min) and come back in an hour and a half.

[slamdunkpro]

[ QUOTE ]
Rump roast is very dry and extremely lean. It is almost like eating sawdust. I dont care for it. Chuck roast or chuck brisket is better, but very fibrous and marbled with some thick pieces of fat. I would suggest chuck roast.

[/ QUOTE ]

Point of order – Brisket isn’t chuck. Chuck is from the top of the shoulder (front leg); brisket is the muscle under the neck between the two front legs. In any event, most of the briskets sold in supermarkets have been trimmed of almost all of their fat and require really long cook times.

JJNJustin is right in that a rump is from the round (the back) of the steer, chuck or blade is a better bet. Take a good bottom round otherwise.

This chart should help you in picking a cut.

Beef cut & use chart PDF

You’ll do fine.