Dirty Poker - How much is true???

[JJNJustin]

all paranoia aside, people have been cheating at poker since people have begun playing poker.

-J

[BuckThunder]

I guess my original rambling question was can you be a ligitimate winning player at the medium and higher levels? Without collusion, without cheating, and on your own - especially in Vegas? Is it a viable option to be an honest pro player and make a good living. I ask the question becasue that is what i strive to be and I dont personally know any professional poker players.

So I dont know if most of the winning players at the medium and higher levels are more honest or if more collude and cheat.

[Lawman]

[ QUOTE ]
all paranoia aside, people have been cheating at poker since people have begun playing poker.

-J

[/ QUOTE ]

Where there's money involved you can guarantee there will be cheating. The only question is how much. You only have to look at track & field and pro-cycling.

There is an added complication in poker in that if players have pieces of each other then there may be subconscious collusion, soft playing and chip dumping even if the players don't set out to cheat.

I'm sure I completely agree that the fact that "the same players always win" supports the cheating theorem. After all, there is often only a small difference in skill levels at the top of most sports, yet a select few have just enough edge to consistently come out on top.

[Jourdain]

I don't know, hard to tell.

I know a few years ago, there was this guy (a known player and cheater in the old days) in rec.gambling.poker newsgroup who had made a tape with Mike Caro about cheating. He claimed that there was a syndicate of cheaters centered around the big man from texas, virtually everyone who played in the big game throughout the years was involved in cheating with marked cards etc. I remember that David Sklanksy, Mike Caro, and Doyle were in a lot of discussion with this guy back then in the newsgroup.

Of course, in the old days with Johnny Moss, Puggy Pearson, Sarge Farris, cheating was pretty common. In every biography on Moss you can read that he learned to cheat as a kid before he learned to play the game.

It's all pretty hard to prove.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know, hard to tell.

I know a few years ago, there was this guy (a known player and cheater in the old days) in rec.gambling.poker newsgroup who had made a tape with Mike Caro about cheating.


[/ QUOTE ]

You are talking about Russ Georgiev, the Chicken Little of poker. According to Russ, everyone who has ever played poker is a cheat, and he has it all on tape, which he will sell you for big bucks. He has zero credibility with anyone who knows the game.

[ QUOTE ]
Of course, in the old days with Johnny Moss, Puggy Pearson, Sarge Farris, cheating was pretty common.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, you know for a fact that these guys and others are cheats. Perhaps you could share the evidence of that with us.

P.S. Saying "everyone knows" or "it is common knowledge" is not evidence.

[ECDub]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of course, in the old days with Johnny Moss, Puggy Pearson, Sarge Farris, cheating was pretty common.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, you know for a fact that these guys and others are cheats. Perhaps you could share the evidence of that with us.

P.S. Saying "everyone knows" or "it is common knowledge" is not evidence.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure the guy your quoting was inferring those players were cheaters, but that in their time, cheating was common. Evidence would be from their own mouths. Here is from an interview with Doyle.

Question: Did you ever catch anyone cheating?
Brunson:Oh, many times. It was almost acceptable back in those days. People could do almost anything that they could get away with. So it wasn't an uncommon thing to catch somebody cheating--or trying to cheat.

Question:In a game where cheating is part of the game, where does honor and trust fit in amongst gamblers?
Brunson:You always just had to be on the lookout for the dishonest people. It's kind of a standard thing that, while people didn't get mad when they caught them cheating, they just made them quit.

[JohnG]

[ QUOTE ]
You are talking about Russ Georgiev, the Chicken Little of poker. According to Russ, everyone who has ever played poker is a cheat,

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone? You just showed your bias right there.

[ QUOTE ]
and he has it all on tape, which he will sell you for big bucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I must be special because he sent me mine for free.

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He has zero credibility with anyone who knows the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

You talk crap.

[WalkAmongUs]

if you believe everything this guys says then you most likely are also an avid reader of the national enquirer

how is bat boy doing?

[BarkingMad]

[ QUOTE ]
I can tell you a casino in Seattle where the employees collude with regulars - ex employees have told me and I have been a victim to it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm interested in hearing the details of this (mostly - which casino / cardroom). Could you PM me if you would rather not post?

I live in the Everett / Silverlake / Mill Creek area & play regularly at Tulalip, and irregularly at virtually every other cardroom in our area.

I have an idea of where this could be, but it's based only on gut feel - nothing substantial.

BM

[JohnG]

[ QUOTE ]
if you believe everything this guys says then you most likely are also an avid reader of the national enquirer

[/ QUOTE ]

Who said I believe everything Russ G says?

There's a difference between believing everything Russ says and pointing out 3 things benfranklin lied about in his post.