Best Line OOP with Pair/Flush Draw in Limped Pot (NL 100 6m)

[Pinchot]

Okay, a little background here. I've recently started playing again after a 3 month hiatus and I decided to hop back in the NL100 game to get my feet wet again. Now, onto the hand.

This hand is from memory so forgive me for not using the converter.

Me: BB w/ 109 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img](100bb)
Villian: MP (about 90 BB)

I don't have any real reads as I think he recently sat down and we haven't played together before.

Preflop is a limped pot, UTG+1 calls, villian calls, SB completes, and I check in the BB.

Flop is A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I flop middle pair with a decent flush draw. SB checks and I lead for 4 (slightly over the pot because I'm lazy). I would do the same with sets or other made hands on this board as well. Villian makes it 10 total (I think this is the raise). Here, I decide to call and take a turn. Does anyone 3 bet here normally?

The turn is the 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. What's your line here? He's got about 80BB behind and I have him covered.

[CappyAA]

On the flop, this is an easy 3-bet. On a blank turn, you have to mathematically fold to a pot sized bet b/c you're not getting the odds. Bump it up on the flop and enjoy some fold equity added to the mix.

As played, super easy push on the turn.

[mattnxtc]

I dont mind the flat call on the flop. You are probably behind but ur hand is to strong to fold.

turn: theres something like 24bets in the pot. I like c/r ai in this situation a lot. It looks like you only have a draw so he will almost always bet this. He should be out like 20bets and you can come over for 60 more and it will be fine.

[Pinchot]

[ QUOTE ]
On the flop, this is an easy 3-bet. On a blank turn, you have to mathematically fold to a pot sized bet b/c you're not getting the odds. Bump it up on the flop and enjoy some fold equity added to the mix.

As played, super easy push on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you 3 bet the flop what are you making it?

An open push on that turn is a huge overbet. Is that really the best turn line for how I played the flop?

[car ramrod]

[ QUOTE ]
On the flop, this is an easy 3-bet. On a blank turn, you have to mathematically fold to a pot sized bet b/c you're not getting the odds. Bump it up on the flop and enjoy some fold equity added to the mix.


[/ QUOTE ]

Don't mean to hijack, but I have read a couple different things the last couple days about draws. Can someone tell me when we should be 3betting the flop with a draw, vs just calling the raise. Does it depend on how strong the draw is, does it depend on position, such as if we can get a free card, or is fold equity a reason? Hopefully this hijack can help op also.

[CappyAA]

Well, I'm making it at least $25-$30 on the flop here. You have a monster draw with 11-14 outs (although not much, but sometimes only 9). It's basically a coinflip against the wide variety of villain's hands. A push might be a bit of an overbet right now, as you probably only get called by 2 pair or better giving you 9ish outs.

I just don't want to be in a spot where the turn brings a black 2, villain bets the pot, and we have to fold b/c we're not getting priced in with the right odds anymore.

[Pinchot]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I'm making it at least $25-$30 on the flop here. You have a monster draw with 11-14 outs (although not much, but sometimes only 9). It's basically a coinflip against the wide variety of villain's hands. A push might be a bit of an overbet right now, as you probably only get called by 2 pair or better giving you 9ish outs.

I just don't want to be in a spot where the turn brings a black 2, villain bets the pot, and we have to fold b/c we're not getting priced in with the right odds anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if our 3 bet gets called and we're OOP and a black 2 hits on the turn what do we do then? I think that puts you in an even more awkward spot OOP.

[CappyAA]

[ QUOTE ]

So if our 3 bet gets called and we're OOP and a black 2 hits on the turn what do we do then? I think that puts you in an even more awkward spot OOP.


[/ QUOTE ]

You're right, that spot sucks. I'd probably throw a blocking bet in there. Let's say pot is $60. A bet of $25 into the turn, if called, still gives us better than 3-1 immediate odds to hit a hand to get it in on the river. If raised - well it sucks but we have to call all in. But the blocking bet might let us see the river for half our stack, and push if a 9, T, or diamond falls with a confidence that villain will most likely call (since he called the flop and turn big bets).

[Pinchot]

Cappy,

Thanks for your responses. FWIW, I think I like Matt's line on the turn. After the flop my had probably looks like a draw (which it is, but still a made hand too) and he's inclined to bet an ace to protect against the draw. He might have a flush draw as well, but I think the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]makes that a lot less likely. If he's just got a flush draw he might try to fire on the turn again.

[mattnxtc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

So if our 3 bet gets called and we're OOP and a black 2 hits on the turn what do we do then? I think that puts you in an even more awkward spot OOP.


[/ QUOTE ]

You're right, that spot sucks. I'd probably throw a blocking bet in there. Let's say pot is $60. A bet of $25 into the turn, if called, still gives us better than 3-1 immediate odds to hit a hand to get it in on the river. If raised - well it sucks but we have to call all in. But the blocking bet might let us see the river for half our stack, and push if a 9, T, or diamond falls with a confidence that villain will most likely call (since he called the flop and turn big bets).

[/ QUOTE ]

problem with this if we miss and throw a blocking bet of say $25 into a pot we just b3b to $25 that looks extremely weak imo. I would be coming over the top with a lot of holdings if im the villian mainly b/c the bet shows the weakness your hand has