the whole middle east thing...

[xpokerx]

maybe thats not the best choice of words/phrases.

how is this.

these people do not value life in the same way that westerners do. thus, they think taking your life with theirs is a worthwhile trade. they dont care if they die, so long as you die.

[C0pernicus]

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...has to be understood in this context.

the terrorists/radical islamic jihadist/islamofascists ,whatever you want to call them, have a stated and defined goal. they want to destroy israel and the west.

they want to kill you, and there is nothing you can say or do to change their mind. if you can understand that you can START to figure out what needs to be done about this issue.

as far as i can see we only have two choices in how to procede from here. one choice is terrible, the other is worse.

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man, have u ever met someone from Iran? Iranians are about the most hospitable people I've ever met. I don't buy into this theory that they all want to destroy us. Its just not true. These hezbolla guys are the extreme group. Most muslims are nothing like that. I just asked some of my Arab friends at lunch about all this today and all of them said that they don't hate Jews at all.

This fighting has gone on all of my life and all of my parent's lives and it will not likely end in our lifetimes. Both sides of the conflict want something that is unattainable.

Indy

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He didnt say all Arabs, or all Iranians, he said "terrorists/radical islamic jihadist/islamofascists ".

IMO its long past the time when mainstream Muslims should have spoken out and taken action against the radicals. They cannot expect to not be cast in the same light as the radicals when they are silent. It also doesnt help that even more "mainstream" Muslims adhere to archaic and misogynist practices such as honor killings and honor suicides.

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Yah but mainstream muslims don't have the same freedom of speech that we do. They just don't have the ability to come out and start criticising.

Indy

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1. the US Muslims do.
2. Muslims in countries where they dont have such freedoms face a double edged sword. They can speak out and risk the consdquences, or they can cower in silence and face annhilation in wars that are not of their own choosing.

[xpokerx]

they dont think like that though. they were not brought up to see that speaking out is even a choice. its a different mind set brought about by different environmental factors since birth. you cannot equate our belief system to theirs in this way.

[Indiana]

Yah I mean, I guess the US muslims haven't said much at this point. I'm sure that they don't support terrorism as a whole but they could be a little more vocal about this, I agree. Still, do the christians speak up when David Koresh burns down a house in Waco in the name of Jesus? I guess the US muslims see this as a continuing crisis and something that they cannot stop.

Indy

[Meech]

We should be so lucky that the Islamic wackjobs light themselves on fire. It would save the world a lot of pain and money.

[in48092]

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my point is that its the EXTREME groups that we have to deal with. unfortunately they have power in iran and syria and north korea. the problem is that they are not rational actors. they would not care if they died so long as we did as well.


[/ QUOTE ] this statement shows a lack of understanding about what motivates these groups. For starters, Syria. you state these governments act as they do because "dont care if they die as long as we do to." The syrian government is secular. they are not religious maniacs. there moves are calculated. they are performed not to destroy the west, but to consolidate their own power and ensure their survival. syria's meddles in lebanons affairs largely to destabilize the growth of democracy their. they do this because they know if democracy flourisheds their, syrians will take note, and start to challenge the reform averse regime. htis is not to say they are good people. htey're not. they just aren't "extremists" and you misunderstand their motivations.
Also, you are mistaken if you think that hizballah strives for "destruction of the west" they don't. they also are trying to consolidate their power in lebanon, while appeasing the hands that feed them, iran and syria. This latest hizballah attack shifted G8 focus away from iran's nuclear program, and towards this crisis. the iranians have consistently pwned us over the last 27 years. pretty smooth operating for "irrational" people. once again, bad guys, but maybe not as irrational as you think.

[C0pernicus]

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Yah I mean, I guess the US muslims haven't said much at this point. I'm sure that they don't support terrorism as a whole but they could be a little more vocal about this, I agree. Still, do the christians speak up when David Koresh burns down a house in Waco in the name of Jesus? I guess the US muslims see this as a continuing crisis and something that they cannot stop.

Indy

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the branch-Davidians were unknown and a threat to themselves more than society as a whole. There was little opportunity for Christians to "speak out" against them.

Even the FBI's most wanted polygamist they are chasing (or have they caught him?) has received more criticism than Muslims have levied against the extremists of their religion.

[Indiana]

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We should be so lucky that the Islamic wackjobs light themselves on fire. It would save the world a lot of pain and money.

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Correct. But I feel the same about christian and jewish wackjobs as well. I wouldn't mind if all wackjobs followed suit.

Indy

[irvman21]

I can agree with that, the world would be a better place for a lot of people if Yitzhak Rabin was still alive.

[adios]

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The reason why they want to destroy the west has to be understood in context. Think about WHY they want to kill us.

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This is actually one of the best points you've ever made on this forum. What's your take on the "WHY" part?