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#1
07-17-2006, 02:23 PM
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The Political Rant Thread
Man the [censored] is really hitting the fan in the world it seems. Tensions on both sides of the political spectrum are very high. I thought it would be therapeutic for everyone if I made a rant thread where everyone could get whatever it is that is bothering them off their chest. I'll start if off and feel free to post your own unrelated or related rant or just respond to my or someone else’s rant.
[rant] We are losing. After 911 some say we entered WW3 others call it the "war on terrorism" and yet other call it a "clash of civilizations." What ever you call it, I think it's safe to say we are losing it. North Korea, Iran, Syria, Al Qaeda, and other Islamic fascists are owning us. We are divided, unfocused, weak, and incompetent. They are united, clever, cunning, and confident. I say the blame for this is with the two most incompetent presidential administrations ever to have served in sequence. It starts with Clinton and he set a very solid foundation for our weakness. First was gutting our intelligence capability and weakening our military capabilities with budget cuts and shutting down our human intelligence operations. Then there was the pathetic way he handled Somalia which taught the terrorists the lesson that all they have to do is put up a little resistance and the mighty USA will fold. Then there was the first WTC attacks, embassies bombed, Saudi Air Force base bombed, and the Cole bombed. Clinton responded to these events as limply as Bob Dole's dick before he discovered that little blue pill. North Korea went nuclear on his watch despite a so called deal that Clinton made. Then came Bush. He actually campaigned on ignoring the middle east which is exactly what he did pre 911. He also ignored the Cole bombing which happened only a few months before he took office. When 911 happened and Bush "changed" into a strong leader, he totally messed up the war in Afghanistan by not ordering our troops into the Tora Bora region to finish off the Taliban and Al Qaeda. OBL escaped into Pakistan where we will now probably never get him. After this instead of targeting the real threat (Iran) Bush decides to take us to war against the secular government of Iraq. There was evidence that Iraq was pursuing WMDs but we all know now that our intelligence was wrong (thank you Bill Clinton for destroying the CIA). Even if the intelligence was right there was much more evidence that showed that Iran was MUCH farther down the road toward getting NUKES not just chemical and biological weapons. We knew that Iran was funding Hamas and Hezbollah and that the country was run by Islamic Fascists who are hell bent on the ideals of Jihad. There was also strong suspicion that they were harboring Al Qaeda within their borders. To make it worse Iraq was weak whereas Iran was strong. What did we have to gain from toppling the Iraqi regime? What would we have to gain form toppling the Iranian regime? Clearly we would be in a much stronger situation now if we had focused on Iran and not Iraq. But here now we sit an impotent failing world power being tugged on all sides by N. Korea, Syria, Iran, China, Russia, and Al Qaeda. Each power with their own agenda. This reminds me of a game of Risk where one player thinks he is very strong because he has a continent secured so he attacks another one and causes all the players to attack him. This overzealous player is usually the first one to go down despite the initial good position he had. [/rant] 
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#3
07-17-2006, 02:33 PM
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Re: The Political Rant Thread
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] North Korea, Iran, Syria, Al Qaeda, and other Islamic fascists are owning us...They are united, clever, cunning, and confident. [/ QUOTE ] ? [/ QUOTE ] It's kinda hard to respond to just a "?" but I think you are interpreting this in a way I didn't mean. By united I mean that they are thinking strategically and playing off the actions of one another in a way that stengthens each of their respective positions and weakens ours. We are their common enemy.
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#4
07-17-2006, 02:58 PM
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Re: The Political Rant Thread
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] North Korea, Iran, Syria, Al Qaeda, and other Islamic fascists are owning us...They are united, clever, cunning, and confident. [/ QUOTE ] ? [/ QUOTE ] It's kinda hard to respond to just a "?" but I think you are interpreting this in a way I didn't mean. By united I mean that they are thinking strategically and playing off the actions of one another in a way that stengthens each of their respective positions and weakens ours. We are their common enemy. [/ QUOTE ] I see. The United States behaves in exactly the same way as our enemies do (that is, they attempt to use third-party state's to achieve their foreign policy goals -- we attempt to have China pressure North Korea, Pakistan pressure Al Qeada, etc.) -- realpolitik is a bitch, but often cuts both ways. FWIW, I generally disagree with most of the tone of your OP, which I believe can be summarized as follows: in the eyes of the world community (particularly those who disagree with us and wish us harm), the US has become feminized (I couldn't help but notice the multiple illusions to impotence and limp dicks) during the last 15 or so years, and because of this, we've therefore left ourselves open to attack. If anything, I would suggest that some level of excessive bravado has led to strategic miscalculations (see: Iraq) where a lack of force would have been more prudent. I realize many of you here have a distaste for gender introspection, but I couldn't ignore the obvious phallic/penis (and paranoia over the US losing its phallus, and its inability to fight in grandoise 'sword-fights', so to speak) intimations scattered in your OP rant. My apologies if this thread was only for rants, and not the typical forum arguments.
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#5
07-17-2006, 03:06 PM
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Re: The Political Rant Thread
[ QUOTE ]
[rant] We are losing. After 911 some say we entered WW3 others call it the "war on terrorism" and yet other call it a "clash of civilizations." What ever you call it, I think it's safe to say we are losing it. North Korea, Iran, Syria, Al Qaeda, and other Islamic fascists are owning us. We are divided, unfocused, weak, and incompetent. They are united, clever, cunning, and confident. [/ QUOTE ] I would definitely not suggest that we are losing, would not say we are winning either. There might be no clear winning or loser in this situation. [ QUOTE ] ... he (Bush) totally messed up the war in Afghanistan by not ordering our troops into the Tora Bora region to finish off the Taliban and Al Qaeda. OBL escaped into Pakistan where we will now probably never get him. [/ QUOTE ] II am sure this is a tactical situation that the military decides not to order troops in the tora bora region, this blame if some should be giving would not fall on the president. The war in Afghanistan was for the most part not messed. They did not completely destroyed Al Qaeda, put they freed a country that was ruled under a power that knowingly harbored terrorists. The decisions made by Bush after Afghanistan could definitely be questioned further. [ QUOTE ] ...This overzealous player is usually the first one to go down despite the initial good position he had. [/rant] [/ QUOTE ] you assuming US is an overzealous player in this current situation? your rant does cover many issues/events that have quite often been overlooked in many political arguments involving questionable decisions made by the USA government as a whole over the past 10-20 years.
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#6
07-17-2006, 03:12 PM
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Re: The Political Rant Thread
[ QUOTE ]
I generally disagree with most of the tone of your OP, which I believe can be summarized as follows: in the eyes of the world community (particularly those who disagree with us and wish us harm), the US has become feminized (I couldn't help but notice the multiple illusions to impotence and limp dicks) during the last 15 or so years, and because of this, we've therefore left ourselves open to attack. [/ QUOTE ] This is a fair generalization of my position. I did make a conscious effort to use metaphors of impotence to convey my feeling that we are losing power. I don't agree that we have become feminized but we have lost our ability to "perform" so to speak. [ QUOTE ] My apologies if this thread was only for rants, and not the typical forum arguments. [/ QUOTE ] No need to apoligize. I stated in my OP that my rant was fair game. Feel free to post your own rant if you so wish.
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#7
07-17-2006, 03:29 PM
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Re: The Political Rant Thread
[ QUOTE ]
... he (Bush) totally messed up the war in Afghanistan by not ordering our troops into the Tora Bora region to finish off the Taliban and Al Qaeda. OBL escaped into Pakistan where we will now probably never get him. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] II am sure this is a tactical situation that the military decides not to order troops in the tora bora region, this blame if some should be giving would not fall on the president. The war in Afghanistan was for the most part not messed. They did not completely destroyed Al Qaeda, put they freed a country that was ruled under a power that knowingly harbored terrorists. The decisions made by Bush after Afghanistan could definitely be questioned further. [/ QUOTE ] You might be right that not allowing the regular troops to engage in Tora Bora may have been a tactical mistake made by Generals but the president is the Commander in Chief and the buck stops with him. To me the decision reeked of a political decision because there would have been heavy causulties on our side if we had engaged. This is why I am apt to blame Bush because I think (but can't prove) that is where the order to halt came from. Generally I disagree with our whole strategic plan with Afghanistan. We should have focused more on engaging and destroying Al Qaeda than building a free government in Afghanistan. Democratizing Afghanistan should have been a secondary objective, getting OBL and erradicating Al Qaeda should have been primary. I think we acted way too weakly with too few forces and that is why OBL and most of the senior leadership escaped. [ QUOTE ] you assuming US is an overzealous player in this current situation? [/ QUOTE ] Yes. I think we took our eye off the ball with Iraq. We should have focused on our immediate threat (terrorism) and not embark on an ambitious endevour to bring democracy to the middle east. Now we are in a position where we can do neither.
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