Blind resteal gone bad.

[Nottom]

Note: I originally posted this in mid-stakes by mistake. Sorry about the double post.

10-20 on WPEX. Haven't been here long so I don't really have great reads on the other players involved in the hand, but so far they seem pretty typical.

I have QJs in the SB.

Folded to button who raises, I 3-bet. BB caps, we both call.

Flop is KJ4r.

As usual, I'm completely lost and check. BB bets, we both call.

Turn is a blank. I check and fold to a bet-call.

I know I play bad, what should I have done instead?

[Chipspin]

Any reads on the BB?

Usually I find that a cap out of the BB is a sign of extreme strength. And if I have any respect for the BB, I play it the same.

If not however, I'm check-raising that flop.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
Any reads on the BB?

[/ QUOTE ]

At the time, I think I'd been at the table for about 2-3 orbits and had never played with either before.

Neither had done anything to change my read from typical at this point.

[colgin]

I play it the same. Unless you havea read on BB, I put him on a big hand here. Yes, he could be capping light because of your perceived re-steal of Button's steal raise. Still, the reality is that both button and you are likely to call thus tying everyone to a big pot on later streets. Even a dumb BB probably knows this. Accordingly, in these situations (i.e., BB capping a button raise and SB re-raise), I assume a big hand from BB without a read to the contrary.

Given my above assumptions there is a very high chance you are behind (at least to BB if not to both) and you can't necessarily love your Queen outs. Still, getting 14:1 and closng the action I call the flop and hope for the best. After that I am done, when I don't improve and there is a bet and a call.

[W. Deranged]

1. This is one of the very limited number of situations where I really like simply cool-calling out of the small blind. Here's why:

a. Our hand plays well with added players.
b. If we make a top pair type hand that needs protection, our relative position will allow us to check-raise the flop very often. In other words, the protection we pass up pre-flop will often be regained on the flop.
c. By not three-betting, we prevent a pissing-contest type situation with button. If another player comes along, button will likely play much more straightforwardly. We will be less likely to make mistakes.


2. Flop check-call is a play I like, actually. We have very little need to protect our hand (an A is the only card we don't want to see, and even that gives us redraws). We have some gutshots and two pair draws muted because we hold the Q in addition to the J.

3. I kind of like following up on the turn with a bet, though. We're very often ahead here with 2P2K in a three-handed pot. We'll almost never get raised by a worse hand considering the protected nature of the pot.

3b. The exception to this line would be if we hit, say, a 9 or T on the turn. In which case I like check-calling again, as I don't want to be raised because we have a draw that is very likely live and I don't wanted to get charged off my draw or to pay too much.

[slavic]

At 9.5 to one you still can't fold the turn.

If you bet out he raises you still have to call the turn, and I'm not sure dropping the button saves you that much unless he holds somthing like KQ or Kx.

If the BB has a big hand it is more likely to be AA or AK, I say this because he bet the turn out of position, and KK is less likely since we know were one is, along with a Q and two J's. This means it's quite reasonable to thing most of your 5 outs are good. plus at least one more bet, possibly two will come if you hit.

Now on the river if it goes check, bet, call I don't think you can overcall.

So is there a better way to play it? Obviously preflop you played correct. The flop, well you are commited to the turn and likely so are they. If you could bet, get raised and the button folded that would be great but I doubt that happens. The turn is the place were bets start to mean something, but I think you are locked into a river by then.

meh. PLaying out of position is just a pain.

[dano]

I play it the same.

[slavic]

[ QUOTE ]

3. I kind of like following up on the turn with a bet, though. We're very often ahead here with 2P2K in a three-handed pot. We'll almost never get raised by a worse hand considering the protected nature of the pot.

3b. The exception to this line would be if we hit, say, a 9 or T on the turn. In which case I like check-calling again, as I don't want to be raised because we have a draw that is very likely live and I don't wanted to get charged off my draw or to pay too much.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would like to bet this turn too, but I'm not sure were this bet goes for us. THe most likely scenario is bet, raise, if cold called, we must call. If folded we must call again. THe later is better for us, but does it make up for the 1BB it's going to cost us. Did we improve our chances of winning by 10%? I'm not sure we did. Oddly enough I think the Button is keeping the action purer from the BB for making our decisions and certainly after the turn action I have to think we are behind 80% of the time.

3b I agree - once we pick up further outs get to the river cheap.