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#12
07-04-2006, 02:50 PM
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Re: Stars 1/2 PL, Bottom set, play fast?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] your initial flop raise is awful. [/ QUOTE ] explain? [/ QUOTE ] hrm, explaining would probably give away far too much (i had a few paragraph long explanation written up which i just deleted). I saved it to a word doc and i'll think about posting it... but long story short theres nothing to be gained by a flop raise, and you have only 1 nut out. 
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#14
07-04-2006, 06:48 PM
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Re: Stars 1/2 PL, Bottom set, play fast?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] your initial flop raise is awful. [/ QUOTE ] explain? [/ QUOTE ] hrm, explaining would probably give away far too much (i had a few paragraph long explanation written up which i just deleted). I saved it to a word doc and i'll think about posting it... but long story short theres nothing to be gained by a flop raise, and you have only 1 nut out. [/ QUOTE ] Self-important post alert.
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#15
07-05-2006, 12:08 AM
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Re: Stars 1/2 PL, Bottom set, play fast?
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like 8855 pf, even on the button, because if you hit a set it's almost always bottom set, or you could make a straight with no redraws. That being said, you played this hand correctly once you were in it. The sb could easily have top two, and you must consider the side-pot value of the bb who likely only has a wrap. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I think this two pair hand is probably marginal. But I think it can be profitable in the right situations. If you have bottom set on this flop against one check caller, I think its profitable because its you pretty much know exactly what type of hand you are up against and you have position. But I'm not sure how to handle the flop. I could see arguments for folding, raising, or calling. I'd probably just call. See if SB fires again, see if BB hits a straight card and bets etc. The flop is definitely the key decision here. Is everyone really on board for a raise?? But once the raise is made, the hero cannot fold and has to push the turn like he did.
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#16
07-05-2006, 04:59 AM
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Re: Stars 1/2 PL, Bottom set, play fast?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] hrm, explaining would probably give away far too much [/ QUOTE ] If this is the case then naturally its in your best interests to post wrong advice, right? [/ QUOTE ] sorta what durrrr is going for is theory of poker stuff, namely that the value you get out of raising is not positive as you will not get action from all but the most insane draws (for which you are probably even with) whereas you get huge action against TTxx and AAxx which have you nailed. furthermore, flatting will give you more information on the turn as to whether or not you have the best hand. that's the idea, to find the edge and exploit. you gain zero edge by raising the flop, whereas you can find one on the turn. sometimes your edge in this game is putting the least amt in possible with this kinda hand. was this the general direction you were going in durrr?
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#17
07-05-2006, 11:48 AM
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Re: Stars 1/2 PL, Bottom set, play fast?
There are no insane draws on this flop. Raising here allows you to know with great certainty if he has TTxx or AAxx allowing you to get away clean after the first raise and only lose $30. Smooth calling leaves you in the dark and allows a TTP or a weak wrap to once again lead into you. At least this is the way I see it. But maybe I'm just feeding you bad info to help me out.
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#18
07-05-2006, 12:11 PM
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Re: Stars 1/2 PL, Bottom set, play fast?
[ QUOTE ]
There are no insane draws on this flop. Raising here allows you to know with great certainty if he has TTxx or AAxx allowing you to get away clean after the first raise and only lose $30. Smooth calling leaves you in the dark and allows a TTP or a weak wrap to once again lead into you. At least this is the way I see it. But maybe I'm just feeding you bad info to help me out. [/ QUOTE ] KQJ9 has a nice draw on this flop. The raise does not let you get away clean. Due to the stacks you have to call this even though there is a very good chance the SB has AA or TT.
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#19
07-05-2006, 05:46 PM
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Re: Stars 1/2 PL, Bottom set, play fast?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] hrm, explaining would probably give away far too much [/ QUOTE ] If this is the case then naturally its in your best interests to post wrong advice, right? [/ QUOTE ] well i mean about the way i specifically play... EDIT: fwiw if some1 fires pot on the turn, im just calling and folding to a river pot bet on all but one card.
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#20
07-05-2006, 05:47 PM
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Re: Stars 1/2 PL, Bottom set, play fast?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] hrm, explaining would probably give away far too much [/ QUOTE ] If this is the case then naturally its in your best interests to post wrong advice, right? [/ QUOTE ] sorta what durrrr is going for is theory of poker stuff, namely that the value you get out of raising is not positive as you will not get action from all but the most insane draws (for which you are probably even with) whereas you get huge action against TTxx and AAxx which have you nailed. furthermore, flatting will give you more information on the turn as to whether or not you have the best hand. that's the idea, to find the edge and exploit. you gain zero edge by raising the flop, whereas you can find one on the turn. sometimes your edge in this game is putting the least amt in possible with this kinda hand. was this the general direction you were going in durrr? [/ QUOTE ] yah except i wasnt phrasing it as well, ty clayton. -durrrr
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