Open letter to Censored

[sigh]

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4. I know a flush beats a straight. I don't play a lot of poker, but I helped edit Getting Started and I understand the basics. I play very little and I don't like to play live. I also don't like to discuss illegal activity.

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What the hell is this alluding to?

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Prostitution. Back in the Otis days.....

[onthebutton]

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1. I don't feel like I have special status as Ed's wife. If you disagree, please post examples to prove me otherwise.

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I really don't care one way or another, besides the fact that I don't want any of this drama to end, but I don't recall ever thinking that Elaine was trying to "pull rank" or anything in OOT. Really, can someone post examples? Not saying they don't exist, I just suck at remembering things and at paying attention.

Also, to think that people are jumping on her because of her relationship to Ed, who I think is pretty overwhelmingly loved by 2p2 and OOT, is kind of nuts. And people voted for her because of her strong opinions? OOT is filled with strong opinions, and in most cases when people can state their reasons for those opinions, they usually have few problems.

That must mean it's because of something else. I'd like to see the trollish posts, since now I'm interested and I don't remember them.

[Dominic]

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You've all ganged up on her because 1) she expresses strong opinions, and 2) she is Ed's wife

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Dom, this is absolutely absurd. Lots of people express strong opinions that I like. Also, being Ed's wife made me predisposed to liking her. I like Ed a lot and a year ago I couldn't have imagined a scenario in which I could really dislike his wife.

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Agreed wholeheartedly.

Again, I'll simply point to Ed's mom.

This isn't about Elaine's connection to Ed. It's not about her strong opinions either -- it's about how she presents them.

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It's not JUST that she's Ed's wife...it's that she's Ed's wife AND expresses strong, sometimes unpopular opinions that have made the masses gang up on her. Evan, when you disagree with someone you explain your position in a reasoned, respectful way...so I understand why YOU specifically do not like Elaine. But really, the majority are doing this just to stir the pot.

[LittleOldLady]

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[censored] is the king of OOT, invited back by the king of 2+2 despite technically being banned for life. It's obvious how much power [censored] has been given. Even Elaine mentions that people do it for the power and not any other reward; so why is she confused that [censored] is acting like an overlord here?

Like it or not, he is the lord of OOT and his actions are more or less unstoppable.

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Well, I have been watching this trainwreck all weekend, and I have kept my mouth shut up until now (and probably should continue to keep it shut), although I did discuss it with Edward on Saturday.

Maybe it is time for a little 2p2 101. Mason Malmuth owns Two Plus Two publishing which he built from a one-man operation to the point where it is today the foremost publisher of poker and gambling books in the world. His business is obviously very important to him, and he endeavors to put out the highest quality books that he can, and indeed the overall quality of 2p2 books exceeds the quality of poker books available anywhere else (even if Cardplayer chooses to pretend otherwise).

As Mason has said many times, his chosen method of marketing his books is word of mouth on the well-known principle that a satisfied customer is the best possible salesman. Twoplustwo.com is the principal engine of 2p2 word of mouth, and a very successful engine it is, too. It is, beyond argument, the most successful poker site on the web, more than paying for itself in every possible way. Twoplustwo.com exists to promote 2p2 books, and everything else it is or does is ancillary. (Which is why Dynasty was way out of line when he bitched about Elaine promoting Edward's appearances, mentions in the press, etc.)

Mason owns twoplustwo.com, and Mason, not Mat or [censored], has the ultimate say on what happens on the website. [Censored} is not unstoppable. Anytime Mason chooses to put his foot down, [censored] is gone. Elaine is perfectly right when she says that "Right now, OOT is 'tolerated' because it is profitable. But as soon as it becomes unprofitable or risky, I believe OOT will die." At present the balance between the traffic-building function of OOT and the level of embarrassment OOT brings to a respectable business is in OOT's favor. The minute the balance shifts and OOT brings 2p2 into disrepute with its advertisers or vendors or other business interests, OOT is gone. Everyone who does business with 2p2 realizes that the main poker demographic is young men and that boys will be boys, but should the 'boys' step over the line significantly, OOT will be a thing of the past.

I am quite sure that Mason has neither the time nor the interest (and perhaps not the stomach) to be the hall monitor in the boys' bathroom that is OOT, so he has delegated Mat as the day-to-day overseer of the website and thus of OOT. (Edward also has website responsibilities--his are the magazine and a redesign of the website. I dare say though that if he had concerns with the day-to-day running of the site, Mason would take his concerns seriously.) Mat has delegated day-to-day oversight of individual forums to a host of mods. SO that's the hierarchy, and [censored] is pretty far down the totem pole. For reasons which I confess I do not understand (although I would guess they have something to do with a conviction that [censored]'s potstirring builds traffic), Mat has confidence in [censored]'s modship, so there it is.

I apparently am the only 2p2er who hasn't been asked to be a mod, but if I were the OOT mod I would handle the job quite differently. IMO banning should be reserved for those posters who say things that go beyond lockerroom banter and bring the website into disrepute. This would go along the lines of racism, advocating illegal behavior, statements about individuals that are potentially libelous, credible threats and stalking, violations of copyright, and similar matters. I would be more inclined to use lesser sanctions (deletions, thread-locking, pms telling people to shape up, and brief timeouts such are usually meted out to unruly toddlers).

I don't think much of [censored]'s methods, whether he does his pot-stirring consciously to build traffic (rather like William Randolph Hearst's approach to selling newspapers)or whether this is a form of verbal masturbation in which he gets off by exercising his whims (because he is being permitted to) and watching everyone flap and sputter. But I of course am not a member of 2p2's or OOT's target audience, so what I think does not much matter.

[Madtown]

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You've all ganged up on her because 1) she expresses strong opinions, and 2) she is Ed's wife.

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I just want to go on record and state that anyone who claims that part of this is because she's Ed's wife is going to have to explain why there were similar feelings towars Otis.

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1. Agreed

2. You've been saying "I just want to go on the record" a lot lately. Is someone keeping a 2p2 record? Should I start "going on the record" more frequently?

[adsman]

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4. I know a flush beats a straight. I don't play a lot of poker, but I helped edit Getting Started and I understand the basics. I play very little and I don't like to play live. I also don't like to discuss illegal activity.

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What the hell is this alluding to?

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Prostitution. Back in the Otis days.....

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Seriously, is she actually stating that she won't talk about online poker on the 2+2 website because it's 'illegal'? If she is then I'm stunned.

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LoL

I don't think anyone is seriously questioning the 2+2 heirarchey.

All I try to do is make OOT the most interesting, most enjoyable forum that it can be. I have no other motivations.

[kipin]

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he [Mason Malmuth] said I'd have to conceal my identity since I am so disliked

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Quoted for emphasis.

[sigh]

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You've all ganged up on her because 1) she expresses strong opinions, and 2) she is Ed's wife

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Dom, this is absolutely absurd. Lots of people express strong opinions that I like. Also, being Ed's wife made me predisposed to liking her. I like Ed a lot and a year ago I couldn't have imagined a scenario in which I could really dislike his wife.

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Agreed wholeheartedly.

Again, I'll simply point to Ed's mom.

This isn't about Elaine's connection to Ed. It's not about her strong opinions either -- it's about how she presents them.

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It's not JUST that she's Ed's wife...it's that she's Ed's wife AND expresses strong, sometimes unpopular opinions that have made the masses gang up on her. Evan, when you disagree with someone you explain your position in a reasoned, respectful way...so I understand why YOU specifically do not like Elaine. But really, the majority are doing this just to stir the pot.

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What the hell are you talking about?! Everyone hated her when she was Otis and didn't know who the hell she was. Maybe now people are jumping on the bandwagon because of who she is, but it doesn't change the fact that no one likes her.
(and by no one, I mean those a-holes, not me [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] )

[The DaveR]

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[Censored} is not unstoppable.

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LOL, I think you'll find it much more enjoyable to write [censored] or [censored] or [censored] rather than typing <bracket>Censored<bracket>.