2nd Pair vs button PFR (2-4)

Whitewash · #1 06-29-2006, 10:37 AM

I'm sure I potentially played all facets of this hand incorrectly. Was the 3 bet preflop really horrible?

By the way, nothing is known about the opponent.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, Button calls.

Flop: (7 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: (5.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

inferno · #2 06-29-2006, 10:45 AM

I do it all the time

XmasXmas · #3 06-29-2006, 12:23 PM

looks ok, but i'd probably bet the river following a turn check.

Rapidtransit · #4 06-29-2006, 05:19 PM

agreed. I say about 10% of time I lead turn given the game but its prob less then that. i don't see a hole with this line either way.

Fat Nicky · #5 06-29-2006, 06:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
looks ok, but i'd probably bet the river following a turn check.

[/ QUOTE ]

at first, when I looked at the hand, I liked the river c/c. But now that I think about it, I really do like betting the river. It looks as if our opponent didn't like the turn card, so I think the chances of us being raised on the river are pretty slim. Checking allows hands like JT, J9, TT, to check behind and take the free showdown, but these are also hands that might call a bet on the river, especially after the turn checked through.

On the other hand, if villain has absolutly nothing, which is also a possibilty, the checking is correct. Basically, this river is pretty close between checking and betting.

GrahamW · #6 06-29-2006, 06:45 PM

You guys are all okay with the 3-betting PF? I like the rest of the hand, but what about a call C/R the flop?

I don't know about the PF 3-bet from the SB, although I do see its merits. I think I just tend to be a bit too weak from the SB.

Fat Nicky · #7 06-29-2006, 06:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You guys are all okay with the 3-betting PF?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty standard for me. You KJ plays well against the range of a button steal, and you want to play the hand heads up, so a 3-bet accomplishes that eliminating the BB most of the time

Xhad · #8 06-29-2006, 06:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You guys are all okay with the 3-betting PF? I like the rest of the hand, but what about a call C/R the flop?

I don't know about the PF 3-bet from the SB, although I do see its merits. I think I just tend to be a bit too weak from the SB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against a lot of 2/4 and 3/6 full players the 3bet buys you a lot of fold equity on the flop, plus your hand is good enough that it's a legit value bet anyway (assuming Villain ever steals).

EDIT: Also you usually fold the BB as Nicky pointed out.

matt42s · #9 06-29-2006, 07:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You guys are all okay with the 3-betting PF?

[/ QUOTE ]
3bet PF is a much better option than calling and offering 5-1 to the BB.

You hit a decent piece of that flop, his flop raise in a blind battle doesn't mean much more than 'i have position on you'. I'll usually 3 bet and lead the turn - If I'm raised on the turn I'll give it up to an unknown and some TAG's. (But would love to hear good reasons why this is wrong)

Warren Harding · #10 06-29-2006, 08:26 PM

PF: 3betting this is not horrible. At worst, it's slightly bad. This is 6max and button raising standards are light, so I like it.

To start out with, I'd perfer to check call the flop then bet-fold a safe turn. Let button make the cont bet, then lead the turn with better fold equity than a flop CR or lead.

On the flop as played after being raised, you are getting 10:1, which 5 outs can call. Do you have 5 full outs? Probably.

River is borderline in this small pot.