I Keep Dreaming of This WSOP Hand...

[allenciox]

The real problem with this hand is that you set yourself up for the difficult post-flop decision by playing it so fast in the beginning. That's why the pros play small-ball, they want to make sure they are ahead before they get their chips in.

IMHO, I would reraise this preflop to only 500 --- I just want to buy position, not scare away the raiser and his tagalong. If I just call behind, I encourage every Tom, Dick, and Harry to do so behind me. But since I rate to be head of both of the hands I am up against, a pot sweetener preflop bid rates to be good. And it doesn't swell the pot the way your bet did.

In some ways, your preflop raise is the worst of both worlds --- you give your opponents enough odds to call your raise with a small pair, but make it big enough that it is difficult for you to get away when they hit their set. The way to exercise pot control is to make smaller bets.

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I would almost never check behind with AdKd here, especially since I got the pot HU, because my hand is super easy to play correctly given any response by Villain.



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OK, villain calls. Turn is a 9, he checks. Your action? Check again?

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No, I check for the first time.

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River is 2 and he checks again. Bet? Check for showdown?

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Check for showdown. My hand can win at showdown and I have very little FE against a hand that beats me given how I played.

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I don't want to bet every single time, or check every single time, either in general, or with any specific hand.

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Agreed.

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Here, my #1 priority has become getting to showdown. #2 is extracting value, #3 is protecting my hand.

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IMO, betting with the flop with KK accomplishes all of these better than checking with it.

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I just don't feel like villain has a great shot of catching me if he's behind (only ace-whatever of clubs is truly that dangerous).

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As I've said countless times in this thread, even ignoring the cards that allow Villain to pull ahead of me, I am more concerned with the 37 some odd scare cards that kill my action against hands like A8, 99-QQ, etc.

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My range for villain is AK, AQ, and 22-AA with extra emphasis on, say, 77-JJ, and a spike on AA. He cold called a raise, then a reraise. I'm not putting him on 67 or some such.

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Sorry, but this is way too thin a range against a complete unknown. Some people might call with 57s in both those spots... who knows.

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And I think the best way to get $$ from the pairs that we're beating is to check here and let him "put us on AK". If we fire again on the flop, he might get rid of his 99. He might also be the guy who puts every raiser on AK, and so c/r any blank flops. I don't want to get c/r off my hand here.

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See above for my comments about having your action killed.

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Who is going broke here? Most everyone who said bet on the flop is advocating a fold to the CR.

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Well, adanthar for one, and it's not easy to dismiss him as an outlier, when he's such a highly respected poster.

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adanthar? Never heard of him. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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If I had 88 here in villain's shoes, I'm probably check-calling, then leading the turn.

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I think this is a bad line given Villain's (me, in this case) range. He reraised an EP raiser on the first hand of the WSOP Main Event. I'd say a good portion of his raise is comprised of overpairs to that board, especially QQ-AA. If you're the guy who flopped 88, you damn well want all the chips to go in on this flop before a club or straight card kills your action (and if it doesn't kill your action, then you are in trouble).

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If you get called with your 1200 bet on the flop, and the pot is now 4300, and villain leads 2200 on the turn, say the Jd. Now what? I agree that if he checks the turn, you check. Will you call? Raise?

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Obv. I wouldn't raise, as that's the worst choice. I'd probably call and very seriously consider folding to another bet on the river. In any case, the example you cite above looks nice on paper, but again, too many non-perfect turn cards don't allow you to manipulate the pot in this way.

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These WSOP questions are making me ball up into the fetal position. If I get KK on the first hand, I'm mucking. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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lol. I'm actually going to wonder about my dreams if I actually do get dealt KK on the first hand. If I do, I'll have to make a concerted effort to start dreaming about boning Eva Longaria or something.

Final words: Overall, at the start of the Main Event, there is just too much free money flying around for you to just crawl in your shell with such a powerful hand like KK on such a raggedy flop. You need to play aggressively and get value for these hands. Complementary to this, you also need to realize when you're beat and get away from these same hands without stacking off. But if you don't get some decent value for these hands when they arise, you'll end up being that guy who has 14,000 in chips when the blinds reach 1K/2K, waiting to flop the nuts.

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The real problem with this hand is that you set yourself up for the difficult post-flop decision by playing it so fast in the beginning. That's why the pros play small-ball, they want to make sure they are ahead before they get their chips in.

IMHO, I would reraise this preflop to only 500 --- I just want to buy position, not scare away the raiser and his tagalong. If I just call behind, I encourage every Tom, Dick, and Harry to do so behind me. But since I rate to be head of both of the hands I am up against, a pot sweetener preflop bid rates to be good. And it doesn't swell the pot the way your bet did.

In some ways, your preflop raise is the worst of both worlds --- you give your opponents enough odds to call your raise with a small pair, but make it big enough that it is difficult for you to get away when they hit their set. The way to exercise pot control is to make smaller bets.

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I'd like to hear others' thoughts on this approach (i.e., raising a tiny amount like 500, and then wholly expecting to be going 3-way in roughly the same sized pot). Does this really accomplish pot-size-control given that we will be up against 2 opponents instead of one most of the time?

[fro_dude]

You said this was a dream and not a nightmare right? So don't even worry about it, the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is coming on the turn anyways [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]