Mildly Interesting 30 Hand

Jeffage · #1 06-28-2006, 11:14 AM

30-60 Six max on PP. I have Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the BB. One loose limper, then a solid player raises on the button. He is pretty aggressive, but smart and definitely a winner. He isn't crazy but he will push hard at times. Anyway, SB folds and I call. Limper calls.

Three of us see the flop of Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I check, limper checks, button bets, I raise, limper folds and button calls. The turn is the 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] giving me the flush draw. I bet, button raises and I take it to three bets. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Jeff

The DaveR · #2 06-28-2006, 11:17 AM

Me do same frequently. Getting 4-towned sucks but you'll get to cr the river if that happens, and, more importantly, so many players are so freeshowdowny against people who can fold that I like your hand.

MacGuyV · #3 06-28-2006, 11:46 AM

Are you trying to get him to fold or pay off? I'm guessing pay off, but with what? Also, what's the river line UI?

DeathDonkey · #4 06-28-2006, 11:57 AM

This is awesome for your image, metagame, and probably +EV for this hand. If I'm a solid button player I'm going to think twice about testing you in the future.

-DeathDonkey

mr weasals · #5 06-28-2006, 01:59 PM

Jeffage,

I love this hand. I Think we're trying to get him to fold 4-5 outs with AK, while haveing a chance to suck out on a good queen or an overpair. Thank you for the interesting hand.

I would like to know, how would we respond if the 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] had fallen on the turn. In that case, either us or he has 2-5 outs most of the time. Would we prefer to just try to show down our decent hand out of position, maybe by bet-calling then checkcalling?

Since you checkraised while the loose limper was still in the hand, he should not expect you to simply be making a play, so I assume he either thinks you will fold something like 99-44 or can beat those type of hands. I guess he has a hand at least as good as 99. Thoughts on his range to play like this up thru the turn raise?

MacGuyV · #6 06-28-2006, 02:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Jeffage,

I love this hand. I Think we're trying to get him to fold 4-5 outs with AK, while haveing a chance to suck out on a good queen or an overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't AK a really small portion of his range OTB though? I don't understand what other hands this 3bet is optimal against.

Hock_ · #7 06-28-2006, 02:33 PM

If he's FOS he folds to the 3-bet. You make more if you call the turn and bet out or c/r the river. The only way this play is +EV is if he folds a better Q.

cartman · #8 06-28-2006, 02:38 PM

He probably isnt calling your 3-bet with a worse hand and he is never or nearly never folding a better hand, so it seems like calling is better to me.

bxpeter · #9 06-28-2006, 02:39 PM

I tend to agree with Mcgahee here. Almost all better hands are calling down and most worse hands are folding. I don't think he has a worse hand often at all to begin with after he raises this turn. I think a solid player is more likely to just call down with a low-mid PP.

I still do this from time to time though and I agree it is good for image. However, I wouldn't do it when the board is this dry. You either have a queen or a draw/air. I would like the play more if the flop were something like QT2 instead of Q23. With the QT2 flop, it becomes a lot more likely that opponent will raise the turn and possibly call the 3-bet with a worse hand.

In this hand, I think you may have to check-fold river unimproved.

gaming_mouse · #10 06-28-2006, 03:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He probably isnt calling your 3-bet with a worse hand and he is never or nearly never folding a better hand, so it seems like calling is better to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he was bluffing here, though, we get him to fold some outs. We also charge a bd fd the max. Also, there is some (very tiny) chance that QJ or the like folds to river cb.