2 pair vs. flush draw--how do you play it? - Page 2

Point Blank · #11 06-22-2006, 11:22 PM

I don't think a flop "check-raise for value" is a 'usual play' for a weak player (I could be wrong on this ...)

rmr1976 · #12 06-22-2006, 11:23 PM

He appeared to be a tight player, and wasn't in many pots, but the ones he was in, he had reasonable cards. When I look at his PT stats, he is around 11% VPIP.

Now that I look back on it, he could have also had a set. Either way, I'm drawing to 4 outs.

RAHZero · #13 06-22-2006, 11:43 PM

Grunch:

Uh, I don't think the SB is trying for a free card, considering he's first to act and check-raised you on the flop. In fact, I have no idea what he's doing check-raising in an unraised pot, but it certainly doesn't look like a flush draw to me. I think you have to call the turn getting 9:1. Remember, calling with a hand that's beat is a minor mistake compared to folding the best hand. Even if villain flips over a flush, you can still call, since you'll make up at least 2 bets if you hit your 4-outer on the river. Plus, you have the so-far very passive MP3 behind you giving you an overlay.

Also, don't post the results (river) next time, cut it off when it's your turn to act on the turn.

rmr1976 · #14 06-22-2006, 11:52 PM

No, but if he thinks I'm a weak player, he may check-raise, hoping I check the turn.

dchz · #15 06-23-2006, 12:50 AM

grunch:

i think a call on the turn is the correct play, you can't possibly be certain he has a flush draw, do you have any stats? seen him do the same in previous hands?

i don't think he would do a free card play out of position O.o

but i wouldn't fold this turn, a raise for a free SD is fine too, but i'd probablay call and fold UI at weakest..

dchz · #16 06-23-2006, 12:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
No, but if he thinks I'm a weak player, he may check-raise, hoping I check the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok i think the posters have reached a concenses that it's not a fold ont he turn, what did villian have anyways??

Point Blank · #17 06-23-2006, 01:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
No, but if he thinks I'm a weak player, he may check-raise, hoping I check the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

what info do you have here on villian?

I may be wrong here, but - thinking about what your villian is thinking about you, doesn't really apply all that much at this level
most of the time villian is watching porn, or something

paiz · #18 06-23-2006, 04:48 AM

your flop play is perfect. no reason to not three bet, especially in this position. now... just because a diamond hit and you're sure he's on a FD, unless you physically SEE his cards then at least call down. I'm not sure if there's an argument that can be made in favor of raising the turn and folding to a 3-bet, but you can't fold this man.

kiemo · #19 06-23-2006, 02:58 PM

Gotta peel that turn. Implied odds and such.

VTDuffman · #20 06-23-2006, 03:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yesterday, I posted a hand where I'm on a flush draw after the flop vs. 2 opponents. Today, I'm against an opponent who I was practically certain had a flush draw vs. my 2 pair.

I remembered the stats from Poker Tracker in that situation, and once the flush hit on the turn, I folded, as I'm drawing to 4 outs.

From a math POV, the fold looks correct, yet I would have gotten the boat on the river.

My question is my 3 bet on the turn. I thought my opponent was trying for the free-card play, and I wanted to make him pay, but I think this is a mistake, and a call is more appropriate. Anyone agree with this, or is the raise OK?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls, SB calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero folds, MP3 calls.

River: (10 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

(grunch)

You're slightly worse 10-1 on the turn, and the pot is laying you 9-1. If you can safely guess that MP3 will call behind you, you're getting 10-1. Plus if you hit, You'll probably be paid off here. I gotta call this.