2 pair vs. flush draw--how do you play it?

[rmr1976]

Yesterday, I posted a hand where I'm on a flush draw after the flop vs. 2 opponents. Today, I'm against an opponent who I was practically certain had a flush draw vs. my 2 pair.

I remembered the stats from Poker Tracker in that situation, and once the flush hit on the turn, I folded, as I'm drawing to 4 outs.

From a math POV, the fold looks correct, yet I would have gotten the boat on the river.

My question is my 3 bet on the turn. I thought my opponent was trying for the free-card play, and I wanted to make him pay, but I think this is a mistake, and a call is more appropriate. Anyone agree with this, or is the raise OK?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls, SB calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero folds, MP3 calls.

River: (10 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB

[Buckmulligan]

The turn is a difficult street. Folding is by far the worst option. I'm torn between raising and calling; I'd probably call.

[lacrymosa]

You're a 10.5 to 1 dog on the turn, and you're getting 9 to 1 odds to call. Mathematically it's probably correct to fold, but I don't think calling is wrong either, because if you hit your boat, you're likely to get paid off if he's already made his flush.

[Point Blank]

can a check-raise be a free card play (that's a positional play) ... ??

[Point Blank]

**grunch**

with sb's flop c/r I would assume that he has a made hand - like top pair medium kicker (unless he's tricky ... at which point a c/r is for value with the flush draw)

I'm not sure if it's right, but I would 3bet this flop too - and also raise the turn ... if MP3 is still around, I'm not sure what I would do on the flop

[rmr1976]

If I just call his flop raise, and check the turn, he can check behind if he doesn't hit, assuming the other player checks also. So he gets a "free" turn card if he doesn't hit.

[Point Blank]

the guy that raised the flop was the small blind (you would be checking behind him ...)

[VickreyAuction]

What makes you think SB has a flush draw on the flop?

[nomadtla]

[ QUOTE ]
If I just call his flop raise, and check the turn, he can check behind if he doesn't hit, assuming the other player checks also. So he gets a "free" turn card if he doesn't hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

He can not check behind when he is first to act. His c/r may be a flush draw, but it might be other things as well. Top Pair or different 2 pair, set is less likely most don't show flop aggression with a flopped set. I think it's about 50/50 that you are behind one of them on the turn but with the pot+implied odds I would peel. Raising may be better but I don't have the balls to give SB a chance to 3bet. We have just enough to peel so that's what I'd do.

Flop 3 bet is sexy.

[rmr1976]

Duh! You're right.

Still, with a 4-flush, the usual play is to raise the flop, and if a blank hits, check the turn. A weak player might be afraid of a check raise, and will check along.