Tough call or tough fold?

[Tilt]

200 PLO

Table has been loose passive. Villain has done nothing noticeable before this over about 40 hands. I would say he is tight passive from my observation to this point.

Seat 1: ($197 in chips)
Seat 2: ($47.40 in chips)
Seat 3: Button ($184.45 in chips)
Seat 4: BB ($105.05 in chips)
Seat 5: SB ($128.40 in chips)
Seat 6: ($76 in chips)
Seat 7: Me ($215.50 in chips)
Seat 8: ($77.45 in chips)
Seat 9: ($294.65 in chips)

I am dealt 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Fold to me, I limp in EP. Due to the nature of the table I expect to see cheap flops and be reasonably well paid for big hands by the loose passives at the table. Seat 9 calls, seat 2 calls, button pots it, we all call.

Since its his first raise all day I put him on AA/KKds. Come to think of its kind of a bad preflop call given that read.

Flop (pot is $55): K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I check, and am surprised to see it checked around.

Turn A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I check, and it checks around. I was planning to check raise the button, and leading out gives me an awkward pot size to deal with if called and the board pairs on the river. I probably fold to a bet from seat 9, hes that tight.

River 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I bet $16, thinking I am making a last ditch value bet. Folds to button, who raises to $111.

Comments on my play and your river action are appreciated.

[BluffTHIS!]

He's either got the straight flush, the K flush, is putting on a move with the naked K, or is overplaying AAA by trying to move someone off a presumed low flush. With that many people, even a bunch of passives, your hand in early position was more of a bluff catcher even if there was a checked turn. So always ask yourself before making a thinner value bet whether you would hate to be raised and whether there are any tricky aggressive players yet to act. If they answer to either of those questions is yes (and especially if yes to both), then lean more to check/calling.

[pokeriseasy]

I think the only hand that beats you that plays it this way from the button is 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]xx. I can't see a Kh flush checking the turn last to act. Against most players I call, however given your description of the player I think I would lean towards a fold, but it would be close.

[piiop]

I think you should fold, but I doubt I'd fold if I was playing the hand.

The only reason I want to call is button played his hand really strangely and I can't really put him on anything. Maybe something like Kh Q J Th or the bare Kh. Whatever it is he played it weird.

I also like a river check hoping someone else either takes a stab or tries to value bet a str8. I think the same hands that may call your bet (lower flushes, str8s) will probably try a value bet as often as they could call, but anyone on pure bluff will fold.

[Ribbo]

That's an easy fold against anyone you don't have a read on.

[Tilt]

Thanks for the comments. I called because his play seemed much more consistent with a frustrated set of aces trying to push me off than anything else. Or he was just making a play with a completely whiffed hand and had read me as weak. These possibilities seemed more likely to me than the straight flush or K high flush (though I was worried about the K high with a strong set, I could see playing it that way).

He flipped over 6789ds, no flush, and then berated my call. Thats why I posted the hand, to see if people agreed with him that it was a terrible call.

I think his play was awful. It was such a confusing line to take with any hand that bluffing there seems so stupid. Confused people tend to call (as i did).

I agree with everyone's comments that check/calling that river would have been better.

[Ribbo]

Nah, check calling the river is terrible. Probably the worst thing you can do. Betting is certainly correct, although by no means large. A third of the pot on the river to get a call seems fine, if I get raised I would call since my bet looks weak and so people might try to bluff me off it. If I bet the pot on the river and get raised, I am more likely to fold, although at the levels I play, there are very few people who will make a move like that for $1300 given they know I have a strong hand to be betting the pot on the river.