The dirty little secret about Miller's book for players with PT

[railed]

The intent of the post may not be spot on regarding SSHE but this is a very good post.

$2-4 Full(14,579 hands)
winrate: +3.94bb/100
+0.09- outside blinds
-0.10-bb
-0.07-sb

$3-6 Full(163,894)
winrate: +2.18bb/100(just had a 15K hand breakeven stretch)
+0.08-outside blinds
-0.20-bb
-0.07-sb

$5-10 Full(19,885 hands)
winrate: +1.05bb/100(also just had a 10K breakeven stretch here [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] )
+0.07-outside blinds
-0.21-bb
-0.12-sb

$2-4 6MAX(21,156 hands)
winrate:2.32 bb/100
+0.11-outside blinds
-0.11-bb
-0.10-sb


$3-6 6MAX/5MAX(23,163 hands)
winrare: +2.48bb/100
+0.10-outside blinds
-0.13-bb
-0.03-sb

$5-10 6MAX/5MAX(30,316 hands)
winrate:1.55 bb/100
+0.10-outside blinds
-0.17-bb
-0.08-sb

[Ed Miller]

I didn't know I had a secret.

But yes, lots of people don't play the blinds that well, and I think the first step a lot of tighties need to take is to loosen up a bit. And yes, if you improve your blind play, your all-around results will improve significantly.

[Ed Miller]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't know I had a secret.

But yes, lots of people don't play the blinds that well, and I think the first step a lot of tighties need to take is to loosen up a bit. And yes, if you improve your blind play, your all-around results will improve significantly.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I didn't totally intend to dismiss the OP. But I think his post would have been a lot more valuable if he had offered some suggestions about common mistakes people make from the blind and how to fix them.

[Harv72b]

I don't think I've weighed in on this topic yet. I will echo what many others have said--this is a good post, at least in the underlying message regarding the amount of money many players leak from the blinds. Based on some of the hands that we've seen posted here in the past, I think that some of the major leaks would be:

-Completing too often from the SB in a 1:2 blind structure. We all know that SSH recommends completing with any two suited, but keep in mind that advice is meant for fairly loose tables. Even the book's definition of a "tight" table is often relatively loose by online standards, especially when you get up towards middle limits. So completing with J2s, while a good play after 4 players limp, is most definitely not a good play when there's only 1 or 2 limpers. Offsuit connectors are another culprit--you need to have some very good pot odds to make completing with 67o profitable, and you aren't likely to be getting them in most online games.

-Not raising enough from the BB behind many limpers. When you check your option while holding a hand like JJ or QJs after 5 limpers, you are only hurting yourself--by taking away profits when you win the hand, by eliminating the pot odds you need to continue with your draws, etc. When you have an equity advantage, you should usually raise; it makes no difference whether or not you're in the BB.

-Poor postflop play when playing OOP. Things like check/raising a bet from the button with your flopped top two or trips on an utterly drawless board (or doing the same with your flush draw + undercards), not taking betting patterns (or likely ones) into account when playing the latter streets with a strong hand/strong draw, etc. When you flop a monster, especially out of the big blind, bet/3-bet is your friend. Get to know him.

-Overdefending your BB (I'm way guilty of this one). There's a huge difference between an aggressive player openraising from the CO and a passive one raising from UTG. Unless the raiser is a terrible LAG, you have to respect EP raises.

-Underdefending your SB. Especially on 3/6's blind structure, it's too easy to see an openraise from an aggressive player on the Button, look down at your A7o, and say "meh...it's only a dollar" before you muck. Or worse yet, to look down at a pocket pair and coldcall--with a (very) few exceptions, if your SB hand is worth defending with, it's worth 3-betting with to knock the BB out (and gain folding equity against the stealer).

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't know I had a secret.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

You even kept it a secret from yourself!

We're getting into that Fight Club area now...

[mack848]

Thanks Harv, that was exactly the post I was hoping someone would add to this thread.

[droolie]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I've weighed in on this topic yet. I will echo what many others have said--this is a good post, at least in the underlying message regarding the amount of money many players leak from the blinds. Based on some of the hands that we've seen posted here in the past, I think that some of the major leaks would be:

-Completing too often from the SB in a 1:2 blind structure. We all know that SSH recommends completing with any two suited, but keep in mind that advice is meant for fairly loose tables. Even the book's definition of a "tight" table is often relatively loose by online standards, especially when you get up towards middle limits. So completing with J2s, while a good play after 4 players limp, is most definitely not a good play when there's only 1 or 2 limpers. Offsuit connectors are another culprit--you need to have some very good pot odds to make completing with 67o profitable, and you aren't likely to be getting them in most online games.

-Not raising enough from the BB behind many limpers. When you check your option while holding a hand like JJ or QJs after 5 limpers, you are only hurting yourself--by taking away profits when you win the hand, by eliminating the pot odds you need to continue with your draws, etc. When you have an equity advantage, you should usually raise; it makes no difference whether or not you're in the BB.

-Poor postflop play when playing OOP. Things like check/raising a bet from the button with your flopped top two or trips on an utterly drawless board (or doing the same with your flush draw + undercards), not taking betting patterns (or likely ones) into account when playing the latter streets with a strong hand/strong draw, etc. When you flop a monster, especially out of the big blind, bet/3-bet is your friend. Get to know him.

-Overdefending your BB (I'm way guilty of this one). There's a huge difference between an aggressive player openraising from the CO and a passive one raising from UTG. Unless the raiser is a terrible LAG, you have to respect EP raises.

-Underdefending your SB. Especially on 3/6's blind structure, it's too easy to see an openraise from an aggressive player on the Button, look down at your A7o, and say "meh...it's only a dollar" before you muck. Or worse yet, to look down at a pocket pair and coldcall--with a (very) few exceptions, if your SB hand is worth defending with, it's worth 3-betting with to knock the BB out (and gain folding equity against the stealer).

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice post. Here's another suggestion...

-Raise more from the SB and BB when there's only one limper and it's folded to you. This includes when the SB completes. You will win a huge % of the pots with a follow up bet on the flop. I'm stunned how often the limper will fold pf in this spot (not that often but any amount is surprising to me).

-Steal liberally from the SB when it's folded to you.

[WhiteShirt]

bump

[Bjorn]

While i agree that it doesn't discuss blind play specifically in any detail it is still the poker book that improved my blind play the most.

Why do you say? Well because it teaches you how, when and why to play difficult hands in a good aggressive way postflop.

Blind play hands are usually of this type. You often start with a weak or marginal hand simply because the generous pot odds makes it correct to play many hands out of the blinds. Given this it should come as no suprise that you often find yourself with "semihit" kind of hands on the flop plus of course that you're out of position.

These hands are no doubt among the most demanding when it comes to postflop skills and if anyone has any tips of a book that does a better job of teaching that than SSH please inform me because I'm buying that book imidiatly.

/Bjorn

[Shiva]

Ed, I would be interested in what you think about his numbers regarding > $0.2 in the BB and >$0.09 in the SB you are probably playing too tight. Do you agree with those assumptions and what it the right nunber?