Cheating at WSEX

[D. Andrew]

Recently, I noticed that WSEX was spreading multiple 10/20 games. I made a deposit on Monday, 6/5/06, and began playing whenever I was able to play 3 games. I played on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday with very mediocre results. I did not play on Thursday, but played 2.5 hours on Friday. I got creamed for a little over 1K. During my play on Friday I noticed something was wrong, but was unable to put a finger on it. There were several games, most were not full, and I was playing in 3 of them. After I played, I went to my PokerTracker database and hand histories and found that players were cheating.

The players were cheating by coming into the game without having to post. They would get into the game (without posting), play till their blind came up and then leave. They would then comeback, doing the same thing over and over again. One player did this for the entire 2.5 hours I played on Friday. But there were quite a few doing it. Looking back at previous day, shows that it was being done in the games I was playing all week. I never noticed.

The players were exploiting a bug in the software. I was NOT able to do it, but these players certainly did. They played hands, they NEVER paid a blind. They would come in at the cutoff and play till the big blind. How could they lose? How could I win?

I was totally taken off-guard by this. I did not know what to do. I gave it a day, then contacted support on Saturday. I told them what was being done, as well as players names that were doing it. I asked that I be returned the net amount lost during the week ($700). They respond that they will look into it and get back to me in 24 hours. I hear nothing from them on Sunday, and I send another email on Monday. Again they tell me they are looking into it. I hear nothing and today (Tuesday) I fire off the following email...

[ QUOTE ]
Four days is long enough. I have described that players are coming into the
games without having to post (utilizing a bug in your system) then playing
till their blinds and leaving. This is then repeated over and over again.
I have given you names of players doing this. Both of the players did this
or 2.5 hours while I played on multiple tables Friday at which time I lost
1058. It should take a total of 5 min. to see this clearly. A cursory
glance at my Poker Tracker database has shown other players doing this
throughout the week I played. I am asking for the 701 that I lost during
the course of the week to be returned, that is all.

Your site does not have the safeguards in place to stop such behavior. Your
site does not monitor the games for shady behaviour. Your site does not
provide the necessary protection to the players. Even after blatant
cheating is found, your site is unwilling to do anything to correct the
situation, help the player being cheated, or make the necessary reparations.
In fact it is even questionable if you have even looked into the situation.
Stall and delay is your only response.

I simply can not let this go on. I will be making a post on the twoplustwo
internet poker forum. You can respond there.


[/ QUOTE ]

Support responds back stating they are having an update at the end of the week to fix software issues. They are aware of the issue. They are having a problem with the issue. The update should correct the issue. After I respond, I receive another email stating I will not be receiving my money back. Basically they have known about it, have done nothing to stop it, and don't care if you lost money due to it.

Players wishing to see if it was done while they were playing simply need to look at the session notes tab in pokertracker. It will be obvious. Also cycling through games in the replayer shows some of the 'longer' sessions that pokertracker groups as a single session.

Cliff Notes: Played at WSEX, found cheating, contacted support, support does nothing.

[AntonHeat]

wow, this is pretty bad, hope you get a refund or a stop is put to this.

[jman220]

They're fixing it, thats good. I can't see them giving youu your money back, it may not even have been "technically" against their rules, therefore not cheating.

Not saying it doesn't suck, but I don't see you getting your money back.

[StepBangin]

How do you not notice this while its happening? Isnt it unusual that 2 or 3 players would get up every round. Even if you didnt realize it was the same players, you really should notice people getting up almost constantly.

From my experience at 10/20, the table doesnt change that drastically, Im sure I would notice if a table at ANY limit changed this often

[Packard]

I have seen this free blinding in at WSEX also. Players come in right after the button passes and click "sit out next hand" and they sit out for a hand. and then they come back and get their next hand dealt to them blind free for several hands until the big blind comes up. You can read in the chat what is going on. "xxxx is Sitting out" the "xxxx is back".

I saw this happen many weeks ago

I stopped playing at WSEX awhile back not for this reason and I am not planning on playing there again so "letting the cat out of the bag" isn't important to me. Perhaps it will be for the better for everyone if WSEX sees this thread and fixes this problem.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
I have seen this free blinding in at WSEX also. Players come in right after the button passes and click "sit out next hand" and they sit out for a hand. and then they come back and get their next hand dealt to them blind free for several hands until the big blind comes up. You can read in the chat what is going on. "xxxx is Sitting out" the "xxxx is back".

I saw this happen many weeks ago

I stopped playing at WSEX awhile back not for this reason and I am not planning on playing there again so "letting the cat out of the bag" isn't important to me. Perhaps it will be for the better for everyone if WSEX sees this thread and fixes this problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, you could make a lot of risk-free rakeback money by sitting at the highest levels, never playing a hand, and just doing this for hours. For [censored] and giggles you could throw in AA, KK, and AK suited.

[nathan06]

yeh i wrote to support about this like a week ago.. they are suppose to have an update asap .. i am waiting until they do til i start playing again.. even though the site is great.. Yeh they really need to get on top of this one.. a ridiculous bug for them to have.. Cardcrusade.com is another almost rakefree site by the way too.. while wsex is down cuz of that bug.. mike

[Brainwalter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have seen this free blinding in at WSEX also. Players come in right after the button passes and click "sit out next hand" and they sit out for a hand. and then they come back and get their next hand dealt to them blind free for several hands until the big blind comes up. You can read in the chat what is going on. "xxxx is Sitting out" the "xxxx is back".

I saw this happen many weeks ago

I stopped playing at WSEX awhile back not for this reason and I am not planning on playing there again so "letting the cat out of the bag" isn't important to me. Perhaps it will be for the better for everyone if WSEX sees this thread and fixes this problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, you could make a lot of risk-free rakeback money by sitting at the highest levels, never playing a hand, and just doing this for hours. For [censored] and giggles you could throw in AA, KK, and AK suited.

[/ QUOTE ]

You cannot. Their method of calculating rakeback requires that you contribute to pots to get any rakeback. Doing this, never posting or playing a hand, will make you $0 rakeback.

[jonnyd]

i dont understand why you would be reimbursed for money lost..

[Packard]

BrianWalter,

The players who don't post will get rakeback on the pots they win. Obviously these people will play very strong hands and win some pots and get rakeback on those pots.

I think a non blind paying player would not make a significant amout of rakeback but they almost certianly wouldn't need much rakeback to have a tremendous edge in the game.