QQ very passive line

cbloom · #1 06-20-2006, 05:30 PM

Thought I'd try something different. CO is a good TAG I've played with before. He's generally good but has one big spewy leak : if he PFR's and keeps the betting lead, he will often (but not always) keep betting no matter what. I'm not exactly sure what his range is for betting the river here. I think if I reraise preflop he plays perfectly against me.

Thoughts on his river range, and thoughts on the line in general please (but don't be too mean).

No Limit Hold'em Ring Game (6 max) , 5 players
Blinds : $0.50/$1

Stacks:
UTG : $117.45
CO : $131.05
Button : $445.72
Hero : $99
BB : $103.40

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, CO raises to $4, Button folds, Hero calls, BB folds.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($9, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $6, Hero calls.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($21, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $15, Hero calls.

River: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($51, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $35, Hero ???

anacrime · #2 06-20-2006, 05:36 PM

Looks to me like he has air. I don't see him betting this river with AA-KK - maybe JJJ. But he also doesn't seam to be afraid of the flush very much. Do you think he plays a flush draw like this or would he check behind on the turn?

FWIW I hate when people take this line against me. Feels like getting owned [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

flatbroke · #3 06-20-2006, 05:52 PM

Maybe Villain knew cbloom would valuebet the river if cbloom had the flush, for there is a chance villain could check behind.

If villain has AKs IMO he has two overcards and a nice FD, the bets are ok by villain.

IMO I hate calling down like this. I would checkraise the flop to 18ish, see if he really got something. You've got to be more aggresive if he always bet like that after a preflop raise.

SHOW 'M WHOSE BOSS.

As played I probably fold the river and I hate it...

derosnec · #4 06-20-2006, 05:53 PM

call river. why else would you check it??

cbloom · #5 06-20-2006, 05:57 PM

Well, it's a funny river card. If it was a J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I would insta-call. (I might have bet the river in that case too).

The funny thing about the [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] river is he has to suspect that I was on the flush draw. If I lead on the river he puts me on the flush and folds anything I beat. So betting this river is def. wrong. Even after I check the river he has to be a bit scared of the flush, so I think he checks behind anything with showdown value (I think even AJ might check behind but I'm not sure). So, he's only betting here with air or a monster, I would guess. But maybe not, maybe he's not scared of the flush since I checked.

bnorthro · #6 06-20-2006, 05:58 PM

I think this is played very well given your read. No reason to define your hand if you think it'll stop him from betting. I think since you took such a passive line though, you kinda commited to a showdown.

I think a flop check/raise is pretty bad because he's folding every hand you're ahead of and raising (or calling) hands that crush you.

flatbroke · #7 06-20-2006, 06:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I think a flop check/raise is pretty bad because he's folding every hand you're ahead of and raising (or calling) hands that crush you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do want villain to fold here, I'm oop if a spade comes up then what? (see original hand), we know he bets alot post flop so then we are calling in the dark. commiting ourselves to the pot versus a monster maybe.

if we do pick up the pot villain knows hero got a strong hand, and will maybe slow down on you in the future, which IMO is great [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Sunny Mehta · #8 06-20-2006, 06:05 PM

the only reason to flat-call on the turn is if you'll get another barrel out of him on the river with air some percentage of the time.....so given that you induced the bluff, you must call it.....if you don't expect that third bluff barrel often enough, you may as well raise the turn because you're not getting any more money out of him so no point in giving him a free one - there are a decent amount of cards that you aren't ecstatic to see on the river......

cbloom · #9 06-20-2006, 06:09 PM

coltrane, if you knew he would be smart+aggressive on the river (check behind mediocre hands that might win showdown, bet again with air and monsters), is it better to c/c the turn or c/r ?

(I definitely think the main decision point in the hand is whether to c/c turn or c/r turn).

Grunch · #10 06-20-2006, 06:15 PM

Nice hand, given your read on this opponent.

I hope your question is between check-call and check-raise. If you were thinking of check-fold, then you misplayed the whole hand wildly.

IMO, this is a CLEAR call. This opponent has way more than just spades, and you beat virtually all of it. OTOH, raising serves absolutely no purpose at all. Only better hands will call, and in fact, they will raise. You even give an opponent (who you implied was decent or good) a chance to bluff-raise you off the river. Check-raising is a bad plan.