Wisconsin Poker Question....

[MrGrob]

Is it worth the trip to Ho Chunk Casino rather than playing at Potowatomi Casino? I ask as I am new to WI and have a friend coming to visit for a time. We have played Potowatomi before, and figured maybe a change would be nice, but I know nothing about the rake or game differences between the two. Also, does Ho Chunk comp low limit players anything during the winter time?

Any help would be nice...thanks!

[The Rev]

As of last year sometime Ho Chuck closed down their Poker room. They did not pay their dues to the state. But there has been grumblings lately that they will reopen sometime this year. I was in Green Bay this past week and they only had 3/6 and NL going. Nice room though.

[magoo]

It was kind of funny when Ho Chunk HAD A ROOM. Some of their tournaments started about EIGHT A.M.!! Anyway, be patient and hopefully this will happen:
Kenosha casino proposal betting on Illinois gamblers

Published January 15, 2006


As Illinois officials weigh their next move in the seemingly endless drama over the remaining gambling license, a casino proposed for just 10 miles across the Wisconsin border is sailing steadily through the bureaucracy.

The $808 million Indian casino would be built at the Dairyland greyhound racetrack in Kenosha. It would have 3,100 slot machines and 75 table games, plus retain dog racing and simulcasts from other horse and dog tracks. A 5,000-seat theater and 400-room hotel are also on the drawing board.

It would be three times larger than Illinois casinos, which are restricted by state law from accommodating more than 1,200 gamblers at a time. Most have around 1,100 slot machines and 20 to 30 table games, such as blackjack or poker.

"It's ambitious, but we would never have embarked upon something of this magnitude if the numbers didn't support it," said Michael Chapman, chairman of Wisconsin's Menominee tribe, which is behind the project. "There's not much in between Milwaukee and Chicago, and this will fill that void."

For years, Waukegan has wanted to change that, bidding $520 million in a partnership with Harrah's for the chance to build and run the state's 10th casino. Despite its competitive bid and location, however, Waukegan was never the frontrunner for the license. In 2004, the Illinois Gaming Board chose Rosemont instead. Since then, the decision has been mired in court.

No one knows how much revenue a Kenosha casino would siphon from Illinois, but a financial analysis prepared for the Menominee by PricewaterhouseCoopers says the facility "is expected ... to draw significant levels of spending from Illinois residents."

Plan could impact Waukegan

If a casino were built quickly, the report adds, it would reduce the chance of a casino being located in Waukegan, thus "preserving a greater amount of potential positive economic impacts for the State of Wisconsin and the Kenosha area."

Waukegan Mayor Richard Hyde, who has fought hard to win the remaining Illinois gaming license for his city, said he was not worried about the competition a Kenosha casino might present.

"Not one bit," Hyde said, even though Dairyland is a 20-minute drive from the former Lakehurst Mall site where Waukegan hopes to build its gambling palace.

Hyde predicted that if Waukegan got the state's 10th casino license, Kenosha would not open its casino. But if Waukegan's bid is rejected again, "one will be built in Kenosha," Hyde said, "and Illinois will get screwed out of all that money they could make."

The federal Bureau of Indian Affairs is expected to rule on the Menominee application by the end of the year, said agency official Michael Skibine. It would then go to Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle, who has the final word but has not said whether he would OK the project.

Illinois officials had little to say about the Kenosha project and what effect it might have on the awarding of the state's last casino license.

A spokeswoman for Gov. Rod Blagojevich could not provide a comment, and a spokesman for the Illinois Gaming Board said it would be premature to speculate on the effect nearby competition would have on the 10th license, because the license was likely to be hung up in court for years. The license was awarded to Rosemont but then withdrawn, prompting multiple lawsuits.

Tom Swoik, executive director of the Illinois Casino Gaming Association, predicted a Kenosha casino would have a "negative impact" on Illinois gambling houses. "We're talking about a very large casino just across the border," Swoik said. "On weekends [at casinos] in Aurora and Elgin it gets pretty full, and if they can't get in, people will just go up there."

The Menominee are an 8,000-member tribe with a reservation in northeast Wisconsin. They are among the state's poorest tribes, with a median family income of $26,000 and 32 percent of families living below the poverty line, the tribe says.

The Kenosha project, which has been in the works for nearly a decade, was designed to change that, but it has been a long road. There are only a handful of off-reservation Indian casinos in the country, and the process of getting one is lengthy and controversial.

Wisconsin plan faces hurdles

The project faces other potential roadblocks, including a court fight over Indian gambling in Wisconsin.

Despite cutting a $40 million deal to sell the site to the Menominee, Dairyland's owners are hedging their bets by suing the state, arguing that Native American casinos are unconstitutional, with the hope that the track will be able to install its own gambling machines, said Roy Berger, the track's executive vice president. Their case is expected to be heard by the state's top court in the coming months.

However, the Menominee have already crossed many hurdles and are optimistic a casino could be built in the next year or two. They have partnered with the Mohegans, a Connecticut tribe that runs a huge casino in that state, and a Kenosha businessman, Dennis Troha.

Kenosha and Kenosha County voters already have approved the project in referendums, a critical step in getting land transferred into an Indian trust through the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Without that transfer, there can be no casino.

Final approval of the land into trust agreement and the casino itself would fall to Doyle, who controls all Indian gaming deals in the state.

- - -

Proposed Wisconsin casino could upstage Illinois gambling

An $808 million Indian casino proposed for Kenosha would be 66,000 square feet larger than Illinois' biggest casino and include gaming, dog tracks, a theater and a hotel.


Name Table Slot Revenue Square feet games machines 1. Kenosha Casino 75 3,100 $420 million* 116,000 ILLINOIS CASINOS In 2004 2. Joliet-Empress 26 1,182 $228.1 million 50,000 3. Aurora-Hollywood 29 1,162 $229.5 million 41,384 4. Joliet-Harrah's 19 1,210 $272.3 million 39,000 5. Elgin Grand Victoria 42 1,073 $400.5 million 29,850 6. Metropolis-Harrah's 24 1,181 $142.9 million 29,760 7. E. St. Louis Casino Queen 34 1,123 $166.3 million 27,500 8. E. Peoria Par-A-Dice 21 1,176 $132.6 million 26,116 9. Alton Belle 20 1,069 $107.3 million 23,000 10. Casino Rock Island 12 732 $38.3 million 17,200 Sources: Illinois Gaming Board, Kenosha Casino *PricewaterhouseCoopers estimate Chicago Tribune

[deepdowntruth]

Very few rooms in WI. All I know of is Potawatomi, Oneida-Mason St. (Green Bay), and St. Croix (Turtle Lake). I've played at Turtle Lake a bunch of times. They usually only have the very lowest limits running: 1/2 NLHE (200max), and 3/6 LHE.

If you want some bigger action, you could make the trip to the Trump Riverboat in Gary, IN, just outside Chicago. It's a busy room with lots of games and limits...but bring some hand sanitizer as the chips are filthy. Really filthy.

You could also head to Canterbury Park just outside Minneapolis, but they only spread limit games, as there is a $60 maximum wager law in Minnesota.

[Benny Foldem]

If you're planning on playing no limit, I'de recomend Poto over Oneida. At Oneida the no limit is 2/5 with 100 max buy-in (effectively a $199 buy-in), which is crazy. The one really cool thing about Oneida is that you can drink at the table which you can't at Poto. Have to pay for the drinks of course, but hey... They had 2 tables of 3/6 and 2 2/5NL.

Not sure which place has softer play. the one time I played at Oneida I was wasted after a Packer game. I think they weren't very good, but it was only one time...

[BigAlChicago]

[ QUOTE ]

If you want some bigger action, you could make the trip to the Trump Riverboat in Gary, IN, just outside Chicago. It's a busy room with lots of games and limits...but bring some hand sanitizer as the chips are filthy. Really filthy.


[/ QUOTE ]

The chips are no longer filthy at Trump! A couple of weeks ago, they broke out new "reserve" chips. With the purchase of Trump by Majestic Star, I guess they decided there was no reason to hold chips in reserve any longer.

In any event, the new chips are a major improvement for the Trump room. There is also another room about 1 mile from Trump at Resorts East Chicago.