Too much oop?

[Megenoita]

Position is overrated in these micro limits, mainly because villains don't know how to bet proportionally to the size of the pot. If I raised pf and only cont' bet the flops I hit, it's profitable to raise QTs in these games, especially because they will often check the flop through or bet tiny when I have a gutshot or a bdfd and two overs, or whatever. They don't punish you optimally, and often don't charge you to draw to whatever you can draw to.

I coach someone in the 5c/10c game, and I've found it hard to stack guys in urp's. While in my game, I'll raise a ton of hands in the SB (any pair, any suited connector such as 54s or 75s, J9s, etc.), in these games, we only raise the better hands that have equity 3-way. And sometimes, QTs wont be one of those hands; it depends on the table. But it's certainly one that you can do.

[Dan Bitel]

This thread makes my head hurt.

OP, this hand is played absolutley fine on all streets

Megenoita, sometimes I raise this preflop, sometimes I limp. The difference in EV is tiny and game dependant.

Oh yeah, and don't call Jam passive!

[jakerc]

your line is fine, i see no reason why your hand isn't good. a set or two pair is probably going to be raising you on the flop to protect against the flush. i would maybe c/c the river if your hand doesn't improve but a bet here is fine too.

[AngryEgyptian]

One of a few things normally happens when I raise a hand like that oop:

I hit middle pair on the flop and c-bet and get called, so I go ahead and bet 2/3 pot on the blanky turn and again get called...then I check/fold the river, or he checks behind and I lose to his Kx.

I miss entirely and check and he bets 10-30 cents. So now I've either gotta fold to this drastic underbet, call and maybe be reverse dominated (happens often), or try to make a play against an opponent who isn't going to fold top pair for any amount of money in the world.

Its just not a situation I like putting myself in.

Sure, a lot of the time I'll take it down PF or with a flop c-bet but the times that I don't happen very often, and they aren't fun to deal with. And very rarely I'll flop two pair against top pair or something and win a stack, but I don't think this happens often enough to justify the raise.

Also I don't get the bet tiny when you have a gutshot or whatever, they are calling your tiny bet with even just one over - and then when you check the turn they are often bluff betting, or worse checking through and calling the river bet.

I really don't think your line is right for $10 NL.

[heehaw]

Megenoita,
I'm not sure what stakes you play as u make it sound like you play higher. I'm not saying raising QTs out of the SB is a horrible play, but i would love to see a screen shot showing a profit for you in doing this.

TZ

[Jamougha]

You have near 0 fold equity in this spot at 10NL, and that's the only think that's going to make raising here +EV. You have a hand that's probably not much better than 50:50 against his range, your one-pair hands are suspect and you are OOP. Yes position is more important at mid stakes and you can mix it up more OOP, but it's still important here.

[kslghost]

I think raising is fine, and probably is slightly EV if no one ever ever reraises. QTs is a good enough hand to limp and see the pot, so it's probably better to get it in cheap than to raise OOP and risk getting reraised.

I found it interesting in NLTP that Sklansky suggests doing semi-bluff raises with hands that you won't call with, like J7o or something, so that you're gaining pure value with it from stealing, rather than marginally pressing hands like this.