Ed Miller DVD, Slotboom DVD, Holdem on the come reviews?

[akvsaq]

Can anybody tell me a review of the following three items? I'm hoping it is for already ADVANCED players beyond the scope of Small Stakes Holdem. Worth getting?

1)Ed Miller 4 DVD set
2)Slotboom's Limit Holdem DVD
3) Holdem on the Come by Slotboom and Dew Mason

Just wondering if these were geared towards the more intermediate player or if there are things to learn for the more advanced player. Thanks.

[BigBrother]

I've only seen the Ed Miller DVD's and I found them to be quite good. Lots of examples to illustrate the concepts.

Definitely takes you beyond SSHE.

[phydaux]

I posted a detailed review of Ed's DVDs on this thread. In summary, take out your credit card and order them today. They're that good.

I haven't seen Rolf's DVDs, but then I am a Limit specialist so I don't devour the NL material.

However, since I am a Limit specialist I did buy Hold'em on the Come. I'm only about half way through, but at this point I consider Hold'em on the Come to be "Small Stakes Hold'em volume II." It goes deeply into discounting outs, something Ed only spent part of one chapter on. It also goes into detail on implied odds, and the relationship of the discounted outs to the implied odds, as opposed to present pot odds vs. total number of possible outs.

For example, say you have 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and you're in a pot with three other opponents on a flop of 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. With three other players in the pot, odds are good that at least one of them has a K or a Q, so it is unlikely your hand is currently best. However, you have both three to a flush and three to a straight. If the turn card improves your backdoor draws, it's likely anyone with a K or a Q will pay you off, so even if you're not getting full pot odds to play the flop for a bet, the implied odds say it's worth it to pay one small bet to see the Turn, and then fold if either of your draws doesn't improve.

Now say the Turn comes 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. You improved your flush draw, but the Turn card paired the board. That means even if the River brings another heart, anyone with KK, QQ, K9 or Q9 just made a Full House, and anyone with pocket 9's just made four of a kind and your Flush is dead. Also, anyone with either Ax [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or Kx [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is drawing to a better Flush than yours. And there are plenty of donkeys who will play Jx [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or Tx [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and suck you out. This isn't an automatic fold, but if even one of your opponents folds then you should consider folding as well, since the pot will have to offer a HUGE price to make facing such domination profitable. Even one opponent folding sufficiently reduces the implied odds past the point of unprofitability.

Was that the kind of "ADVANCED players beyond the scope of Small Stakes Holdem" that you were looking for?

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
For example, say you have 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and you're in a pot with three other opponents on a flop of 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. With three other players in the pot, odds are good that at least one of them has a K or a Q, so it is unlikely your hand is currently best. However, you have both three to a flush and three to a straight. If the turn card improves your backdoor draws, it's likely anyone with a K or a Q will pay you off, so even if you're not getting full pot odds to play the flop for a bet, the implied odds say it's worth it to pay one small bet to see the Turn, and then fold if either of your draws doesn't improve.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't recall this being an example from the book, because this is a horrible situation to peal to improve on the turn. The hero would need to be in a huge pot for peeling to be worthwhile, I doubt that occurs often when 3 players see the flop and the hero has 98s.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[akvsaq]

LOL. That's what I thought. I almost decided not to get the book because of that example which I completely DON'T understand the peel. I don't know maybe in an enormous pot closing the action, I MAY think about it. But then fold. lol
In any case, thanks guys for your input. I went ahead and made the purchases. Nobody commented on the Limit DVD of Slotboom yet. Reviews?

[SenecaJim]

I don't know where this example came from, but if it's about discounting outs I can't believe that the high end of the (backdoor) striaght hitting gives you the ignorant end wasn't mentioned. Even half, a T hits any J beats you. The T & J hit , you are definitely beat. So a backdoor to 9 high flush and a backdoor to half a stragith, WTF?

Wherever you read this, throw it away.

Ps. Plus even more "donkeys" play JTo out of position than play Tx or Jx as you stated, so your straight draw could already be dead.

[phydaux]

the example was mine, not from the book.

[Peter666]

I'm finishing "Holdem on the Come" myself. It is helpful in that the examples give you more problems to think about and work through thus improving your game, but SSHE was more clear and succint and useful in my opinion. I haven't found any startling new revelations in "Holdem on the Come" that I couldn't have figured out already with the foundation of SSHE.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
the example was mine, not from the book.

[/ QUOTE ]


Perhaps you can try another example? It would bee a good exercise for you.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[DiggerDog]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps you can try another example? It would bee a good exercise for you.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't care who ya are...that's funny!