Tricky hand

Eddie901 · #1 06-13-2006, 05:08 AM

First time I've posted a hand here (couldn't get the converter to work, unfortunately). It was an interesting hand FMPOV. Did he have a four-flush or split Kings? After being raised twice, I took the free card on 6th. What would you do on the river?

BTW, I had just arrived at the table and had no notes on my opponent.

Seven Card Stud Hi $1-$2 (real money), hand #595,145,892 (ante $.10)
Table Spokane, 12 Jun 2006 05:08 PM

Seat 1: [7D,7S,3H] ($50 in chips)
Seat 4: [xx,xx,KS] ($88.05 in chips)
Seat 6: [xx,xx,4H] ($19.70 in chips)
Seat 7: [xx,xx,9C] ($46.20 in chips)
Seat 8: [xx,xx,3C] ($18.55 in chips)

DEAL
Seat 8: bets $0.50 (bring-in)
Seat 1: bets $1
Seat 4: calls $1
Seat 6: folds
Seat 7: folds
Seat 8: calls $0.50.

4TH
Seat 1: [7D,7S,3H,KD] bets $1, calls $1
Seat 4: [xx,xx,KS,2S] raises $2
Seat 8: [xx,xx,3C,AC] checks, folds

5TH
Seat 1: [7D,7S,3H,KD,6S] bets $2, calls $2
Seat 4: [xx,xx,KS,2S,QC] checks, raises $4

6TH
Seat 1: [7D,7S,3H,KD,6S,9S] checks
Seat 4: [xx,xx,KS,2S,QC,3D] checks

7TH
Seat 1: [7D,7S,3H,KD,6S,9S,7H] ?
Seat 4: [xx,xx,KS,2S,QC,3D,xx] checks

blumpkin · #2 06-13-2006, 05:21 AM

I probably find a fold somewhere before the river. Your hand is just too weak. And then you get to the river and consider checking? Huh?

Eddie901 · #3 06-13-2006, 07:08 AM

Of course I didn't check the river. My only thought was, what hand could he have that would call a bet on the river that he wouldn't bet out with? The only one I can think of is an unimproved pair of kings. Surely he would have bet kings up? And tried for a check raise if he'd made his flush?

And why did he check 6th? I think I'd have folded to a bet there.

If he did have a 4-flush, it was an interesting way to play it. The raise on 4th is standard but then you're high on 5th. What to do? The check-raise gained him a free card at the cost of a bet that he would have called on 6th anyway. So it could be a case of getting in an extra bet.

jon_1van · #4 06-13-2006, 09:05 AM

fold 3rd

The ante is too small, and the BI too big for you to be getting good implied odds on the call.

EASY 3rd st fold.

On a side note :: welcome to the forum

PoorLawyer · #5 06-13-2006, 10:10 AM

You seem to be way too aggressive throughout the hand, starting right off the bat on 3rd with a hand that is mediocre at best with no kicker. When you are raised the first time it might be time to give up, and I certainly wouldnt bet into him again when you don't improve. I think I would want that free card with yoru hand. Bet the river since you got there I guess. It looks like he was pumping up a flush draw that didn't get there. If he made 2 low pair or something he'll call you probably. If you get raised, well, you called this far might as well make him show em and hope for kings/queens up.

Wahoo73 · #6 06-13-2006, 11:49 AM

Like others who have already posted in this thread, I would have been out of this hand much earlier...on 4th street, if not 3rd. Be that as it may, let me take a stab at answering your questions.

[ QUOTE ]
Did he have a four-flush or split Kings?

[/ QUOTE ]

It certainly looks like four-flush to me. The call on 3rd street to your completion would be standard, whereas split Ks (especially at $1/2) would be raising your completion. The raise on 4th street also appears to be standard and consistent with a four-flush, plus the fact that you catch a K which slightly reduces the possibility of him having split Ks.

To answer your question elsewhere in this thread about his actions on 5th street and 6th street, I'd guess that with his four-flush and a brick on 5th street and you catching a spade on 5th, he was figuring that he'd like to either get a free card or get you out of the hand right then--it is a gambit that I like to use occasionally in spots like this, i.e., check to see if opponent will check behind me for a freebie, but plan on raising if the opponent bets to see if I can get him to fold now. His check on 6th seems consistent with that strategy because the 5th street gambit did not work, he did not catch another spade on 6th, and you did catch a spade on 6th. These factors combined make his check on 6th appear very reasonable to me.

[ QUOTE ]
What would you do on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

BET! IMO, it's a no-brainer.

Eddie901 · #7 06-13-2006, 12:25 PM

Thanks for the response. The aggression, I guess, comes from playing lower limits and trying to get value from all the chasers. But if he is on a 4-flush, then surely I need to bet on 5th? His raise confused me so I called, thinking he was doing just as you said (and he was).

PoorLawyer · #8 06-13-2006, 12:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the response. The aggression, I guess, comes from playing lower limits and trying to get value from all the chasers. But if he is on a 4-flush, then surely I need to bet on 5th? His raise confused me so I called, thinking he was doing just as you said (and he was).

[/ QUOTE ]

IF he has a 4 flush, you are about a 2 to 1 dog on 4th:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1783257
pokenum -mc 500000 -7s 7d 7s 3h kd - 8s 5s ks 2s / 4h 9c 3c ac
7-card Stud Hi: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
7s Kd 7d 3h 184835 36.97 315149 63.03 16 0.00 0.370
Ks 8s 5s 2s 315149 63.03 184835 36.97 16 0.00 0.630

On 5th, you are still a little behind but there is some dead money in the pot...I think you can go either way between checking and betting...I would lean towards checking with your cheese and see if you can improve since there is not a big chance he will fold:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1783261
pokenum -mc 500000 -7s 7d 7s 3h kd 6s - 8s 5s ks 2s qc / 4h 9c 3c ac
7-card Stud Hi: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
7s 6s Kd 7d 3h 242701 48.54 257287 51.46 12 0.00 0.485
Ks 8s 5s 2s Qc 257287 51.46 242701 48.54 12 0.00 0.515

Especially because if he has Kings you are in bad shape:
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1783270
pokenum -mc 500000 -7s 7d 7s 3h kd 6s - kh 5s ks 2s qc / 4h 9c 3c ac
7-card Stud Hi: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
7s 6s Kd 7d 3h 137972 27.59 362025 72.41 3 0.00 0.276
Ks 5s 2s Qc Kh 362025 72.41 137972 27.59 3 0.00 0.724

Even if he has a lower pair you are not a big favorite because of the overcards:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1783273
pokenum -mc 500000 -7s 7d 7s 3h kd 6s - 5d 5s ks 2s qc / 4h 9c 3c ac
7-card Stud Hi: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
7s 6s Kd 7d 3h 295495 59.10 204504 40.90 1 0.00 0.591
Ks 5s 2s Qc 5d 204504 40.90 295495 59.10 1 0.00 0.409

Eddie901 · #9 06-13-2006, 12:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]

On a side note :: welcome to the forum

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks.

(I'm surprised you don't think it's even worth a limp on 3rd. We were playing 5 handed and they were wired. )

jon_1van · #10 06-13-2006, 01:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]

(I'm surprised you don't think it's even worth a limp on 3rd. We were playing 5 handed and they were wired. )

[/ QUOTE ]

you could justify a limp if the antes were bigger, or the BI was smaller.

But with the big BI and the small antes you just have to pay too much to see 4th.

Also, when the antes are small limping to see 4th isn't as good. The difference is how the hand should play out if you spike a high card on 4th. Is 773K or 773A worth seeing 5th? In a bigger ante game you might be able to call down profitably. But in a smaller ante game you probably don't have that luxury. So when playing the bigger ante games you actually have more outs than you do when playing small ante games.