Deep Stack, fight with little

[cero_z]

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i don't have much of a read on this guy. any player would be hard pressed to call with queens, i think. even kings thereis a chanc ehe could fold IMO. maybve 50%, 25% off top of head

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If that's true (about QQ), then push for sure. Myself, I don't think many players are folding NINES after they put in 2500. They'll fold bluffs, and maybe some 8s. But, they probably wouldn't bet this amount on the turn with an 8 (and if they did, they'd probably call a push). I'd say call, and probably call the river unimproved, unless you get some kind of sick feeling. Not sure if I'd bet out a smallish amount (2600) or check the river if I flushed. I don't perceive folding equity on the turn unless he's bluffing, so I say call on the turn.

[Taylor Caby]

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i don't have much of a read on this guy. any player would be hard pressed to call with queens, i think. even kings thereis a chanc ehe could fold IMO. maybve 50%, 25% off top of head

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If that's true (about QQ), then push for sure. Myself, I don't think many players are folding NINES after they put in 2500. They'll fold bluffs, and maybe some 8s. But, they probably wouldn't bet this amount on the turn with an 8 (and if they did, they'd probably call a push). I'd say call, and probably call the river unimproved, unless you get some kind of sick feeling. Not sure if I'd bet out a smallish amount (2600) or check the river if I flushed. I don't perceive folding equity on the turn unless he's bluffing, so I say call on the turn.

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no ones folding kings or queens on UB, imo.

if you are looking for a check/raise by calling light in this situation, this is a bad flop to do so. this illustrates the problem with playing this hand in the first place - the times you flop a good hand and go with your plan, you are only forcing out the hands you beat. the other times, you are showing weakness by just calling, and are still unsure what he could possibly have, but are probably paying off better hands more often than not.

fold pf.

tc

[kagame]

The reason for attempting to snap off a bluff imo is villain is likely drawing very slim given bruiser's read, and the fact hero has a good but not great hand that is drawing well; coupled with the assumption Villain will bluff the river.

I still check raise all in because I dont think villain will continue to bluff the river often enough to balance the risk of being outdraw, or worse, of folding the best hand. There is no way I am folding this hand to highly possible air, anyone who recommended that line should probably try reading the OP.

Oh, I would also be more likely to assume people fold marginal overpairs here to a check raise all in then is average in this discussion. Perhaps not in 25/50, but I see it all the time in 10/20, noone slows down on the turn when they should, and they often end up calling river pushes when I think they would have folded the turn, given their reluctance to call river open pushes for the same amount.

[citanul]

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if your plan was to cr a lot of flops what was it about the flop/flop action which made you decide to not cr?

citanul

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i think what he meant was he was going to play back at him on a lot of flops. here he has TPGK, things have changed. i don't think Bruiser was playing this hand to flop top pair.

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well that's sort of what i'm asking i guess. he flopped *something* but specifically said he was going to cr a lot of flops. if that means he intends to cr mostly with air but do *something* else with hands like top pair, i dno, shouldn't he have had a plan? and if there was a plan, why wasn't it to cr this flop with this hand?

[theBruiser500]

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i hate the preflop call - i honestly dont know what to do in this situation and that is why i avoid loose OOP calls when you both have big stacks. i would only make a call like this against a tilter with whom i wouldnt mind mixing it up with just top pair. agree with ggbman in his analysis.
tc

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"
3.) In my experience, when you fold here, your opponents will be as prone or more prone to re-raise you liberally preflop, and get THEMSELVES into sticky spots postflop, and when you are more selective preflop, you will tend to win the bigger pots and lose the smaller ones, instead of the other way around. "

he won't get into sticky spots postflop he can keep reraising me without a problem because he has position. it's very frustrating playing vs. someone who reraises liberally with position completely cramps my style. if the right play is to just fold here then the only solution is to just raise a lot less hands preflop. then even hands like KJs he can reraise me and I can call but if K8s is ev- then KJs is maybe ev neutral. there has to be something more to do against it

[theBruiser500]

in the hand i c/r all in on turn and he folded fairly fast

[gomberg]

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he won't get into sticky spots postflop he can keep reraising me without a problem because he has position. it's very frustrating playing vs. someone who reraises liberally with position completely cramps my style. if the right play is to just fold here then the only solution is to just raise a lot less hands preflop. then even hands like KJs he can reraise me and I can call but if K8s is ev- then KJs is maybe ev neutral. there has to be something more to do against it

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You may want to 4-bet bluff once in a while as well as CR flops in these spots. Seems to work for me - although I don't play 50-100 (yet)

[im_the_dirt]

I was opponent in this hand and folded QcTc. If i bet this turn with an overpair I would have done so with the intention of calling a push. I don't think i would have fired a third barrell in this hand. I'm impressed by your read in this hand bruiser.

[theBruiser500]

hey dirt, didn't know you read here. my read was no doubt part luck and the line was part crap too if you would have called with an overpair, a few things worked out here for me to win this one.

[samoleus]

I think he meant to check-raise if he had nothing (or if he flopped something huge). But this flop changes the plan. He now has a hand that he can try to get to showdown with.