Difficult board

[Aisthesis]

This is a hand where I feel like I left some equity at the table. The initial raiser is basically a pretty decent LAG. He raises an enormous amount from any position, sometimes mini-raises, sometimes big ones. Before this hand, from the other hands he had shown, I was beginning to suspect that he raised big on most large pairs and small on wrappy drawy type hands.

The re-raiser is pretty new to the table. He had played a few hands but done nothing really of note, so I obviously am putting him on some kind of AA. Other than that, I figured with his stack-size and the re-raise, he was going to be pretty much pot-committed if the board didn't look horrible to him.

As for me, I haven't had many hands the first part of this session and hence look rather nut-peddlish, although a bit less so the last 15-20 hands, where I've had some better opportunities and made one play that probably looked like a bluff (I had raised 4567ds in LP and turned the nut straight with huge redraws, but I don't think anyone expected me to be raising that hand--anyway, they folded on that one, so no one really knew whether I had it or not). But re-raiser wasn't in the game yet, and I think I had no table image at all from his standpoint, only to LAG.

Hence, I decided to go ahead and call with QQ44. I'm somewhere a little worse than 3:1 to set and have position. Probably a borderline call, but I don't think it's unreasonable with the implied odds and also the fact that the initial raiser is going to have to act before me, hence allowing me a better feel for where I'm at if I should hit bottom set.

Here's the hand:

Poker Stars
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $148.30
UTG+1: $55
Hero: $145.90
MP2: $268.25
CO: $20
Button: $43.45
SB: $85
BB: $121.60

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $4</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $25.5</font>, BB calls, Hero calls, MP2 folds.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($81.5, 3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($81.5, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">BB bets $23</font>, Hero calls, SB folds.

River: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($127.5, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Results:
Final pot: $127.5

Villain has 7s 5c 8h 7d

I have several questions here, actually. First, one has to bear in mind that the initial raiser is pretty tricky and definitely capable of checking a flush, and the re-raiser is a complete unknown, who may or may not do the same.

Nonetheless, when the action first comes to me, no one has claimed the flush. So, do I go ahead and bet my QQ set, at least with decent odds to fill up if re-raiser has the flush (he's really the one I'm worried about with regard to the flush since I'm assuming he has two aces in his hand anyway). On the other hand, if LAG should happen to have KK, then I'm really in trouble (and he'll definitely call with KK). Am I worrying too much about these worst cases with what I know about my opponents?

Anyhow, I opt to take the free card and check as well on the flop.

Then the turn. Now I have LAG betting into me on the paired board, and my read up to this point (which, in light of his holdings, was obviously inaccurate) made KK a very definite possibility in my mind. So I just flat call--as I do on the river, too, fearing a big checkraise from LAG.

I guess the real questions here are: Do I go ahead and bet this flop? and, second, should I push or possibly mini-raise the turn? If I were to mini-raise, which I thought about, I think I'd still have to call an all-in from a LAG. But I really don't mind the mini-raise here since he's obviously not folding KK or 88, but he might well push himself with something less. And I guess another possible line is to push on the river, but I don't see him calling there with anything but a hand that beats mine, so I think I like the turn mini-raise better than calling the turn and betting the river.

[joewatch]

I would not call the reraise with QQ44 if you put SB on AAxxs as you are calling 25% of your stack on a draw.

As the action went on the flop, since nobody showed any interest, it's an easy push. The 2 hands you fear most are AAxx(s [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]) and KKxx. SB's reraise preflop tells me that he's not the type to slowplay hands.

[wazz]

Betting the flop is 50/50. He'd probably check KK as well but I'd go ahead and raise here to represent it if no-one else will. If you get check-raised by the LAG I might let it go but the check worked out. Once you turn the 2nd nut boat you have to raise his bet. I don't know how he plays after that but I think a check-behind is also a 50-50 on the river, I'm sure you could have got some value in there but don't worry too much about it. He's not calling a lot.

In short, raise the turn and get your money in with as near to the nuts as possible.

[Lafortezza]

I don't see anything wrong with checking the flop.
I'd raise the turn as played.

After calling the turn bet, I think I might bet the river when checked to, there's 3 hands that beat you and I think all 3 hands would bet the river instead of going for the check-raise, so definite value bet on the river for Hero.

[joewatch]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see anything wrong with checking the flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree here, but I think it's up for discussion. I hate checking here because you have fold equity vs. a low flush, and you will have lost the chance to protect your hand / get the money in when you have the best hand if somebody has a broadway wrap.

[CallYNotRaise06]

i would probably throw out a small river value bet here. is that bad?

Is checking the flop really that bad? You do have some FE against weak flushes, but id hate to get c/red off our hand.

[wazz]

It's opponent-specific. Against a solid player I will bet this because I'm not expecting a check-raise. Against a LAG who likes to check-raise I might check behind and hope to fill up on the turn.

[Aisthesis]

That's what made the hand difficult for me. I think I have 0 fold equity on a low flush or KK vs. LAG.

If I knew that that particular one (who was the only player on whom I had much of a read) was solid and straightforward, I would definitely have bet the flop. I don't have a problem gambling on filling up even if re-raiser should have checked the nut flush to me with his presumed AA.

It's really the LAG who made the hand difficult for me.

In hindsight, I do think it's hard to imagine that a LAG would make a small bet on the turn then CHECK the river to me with one of he hands that beats me. He's found out that I have a hand, so a LAG would presumably be very inclined to put it to the test with a strong river bet on KK or 88.

I'm rather inclined to go with a weak-ish river bet here that he might try to attack with a strong bet (maybe another $20, although I hate betting that small into such a big pot). My main concern is not getting stack in there only in cases where I'm beat.

[wazz]

You're right in saying that you 0 fold equity on the flop but don't forget that you have position. If you bet the flop and he checks the turn you have the luxury of being able to fire another bet and make him fold the better hand.

I don't really like the 'tempter' bet on the river. Your hand isn't unbeatable and a check-raise on the river with the better hand is never out of question if he's an unpredictable LAG which they often are. Just go ahead and bet for value here, bet the pot.